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1. Do not talk to anyone else in the company about this issue. Do not trust HR or legal. 2. Document everything. Write down the conversation you had with your

1. Do not talk to anyone else in the company about this issue. Do not trust HR or legal. 2. Document everything. Write down the conversation you had with your boss word for word. Go do that right now. 3. Save proof of the violations. Save proof of you reporting it. Save your "excellent" job reports. It will be harder for them to justify firing an excellent employee. Realize that data loss prevention software will tell the company you saved the examples. 4. Consult with an employment lawyer. In fact, go see two or three. 5. This is the most important step. Find a new job. Pretend everything is okay so you don't come off as desperate.

EliRivers 12y ago
Do not trust HR or legal. Oh God yes. Everything they do, everything, is about protecting the company. They will lie to you, they will screw you over, and anything you say to them will be used against you in some way.
- AH4oFVbPT4f8 12y ago
  Just to make it clear, HR and legal work to protect THE COMPANY not you.
- semi-extrinsic 12y ago
  I'm a little surprised that everyone is saying "avoid HR" (I have no experience with being on the wrong side of management or HR, yet). Can anyone comment on whether this is US specific or if it applies equally in western Europe?
  - vacri 12y ago
    I don't know about western Europe, but here in Australia, I've heard the story "I went to HR and things improved" exactly once. Usually it's a neutral 'we can't do anything' and sometimes it's makes things so much worse. I've heard far more success going outside HR channels - like say talking to a boss's boss or a boss's colleague.
  - kelukelugames 12y ago
    Let's say you are a female employee and a college hire calls you a sexist term during a meeting. Then yes, by all means go to HR. However, if your manager did something inappropriate in private then whose side do you think HR will take?
    - EliRivers 12y ago
      Then yes, by all means go to HR. You will be labelled as a troublemaker. That college hire will be in trouble as well (not for what he did, but because he has made the company vulnerable to action), but your record will be marked (almost certainly not literally; they're not stupid enough to outright leave actionable evidence like that).
  - michaelochurch 12y ago
    Corporations value consistency over correctness. Your manager is your manager because the company trusts him. Even if the evidence suggests strongly that your boss is in the wrong, the best you're likely to get is a pyrrhic victory: the boss goes down, but so do you. It takes a whole-team revolt to beat a bad boss through HR channels, and most people aren't willing to put their careers at risk. Not only that, but after you beat a bad boss, you're still viewed with suspicion by managers ("protect our own") and will have a hard time getting a transfer or promotion.
  - jcadam 12y ago
    I tried taking a grievance to HR once. Once. Lesson learned (the hard way, as usual for me). Now I just look for a new job if my manager is a tool.
- kmonsen 12y ago
  They also know the laws and the politics of the company much better than you so you are playing on their turf.
greenyoda 12y ago
"4. Consult with an employment lawyer." Talking to an employment lawyer is a very good idea, since you may be getting fired in retaliation for reporting illegal activity: "the 'expert' turned out to be producing documents that are not in compliance with Federal law." You might have a case for a wrongful dismissal lawsuit, which could give you leverage to get a hefty severance payment to make the case (and adverse publicity) go away by settling out of court. So definitely consult a good lawyer who practices employment law in your state. "2. Document everything... 3. Save proof of the violations." Needless to say, don't save these on your company computer, since the moment they decide to fire you you'll lose access to it. "1. Do not talk to anyone else in the company about this issue. Do not trust HR or legal." For more information on the role of HR and why they shouldn't be trusted, read the book Corporate Confidential by Cynthia Shapiro (which I learned about from a comment on HN a while back; thanks to whoever posted that!). Link to book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312337361 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312337361
- kelukelugames 12y ago
  I'm so happy to see someone else recommend this book. :)

EliRivers 12y ago

Do not trust HR or legal. Oh God yes. Everything they do, everything, is about protecting the company. They will lie to you, they will screw you over, and anything you say to them will be used against you in some way.

AH4oFVbPT4f8 12y ago
Just to make it clear, HR and legal work to protect THE COMPANY not you.
semi-extrinsic 12y ago
I'm a little surprised that everyone is saying "avoid HR" (I have no experience with being on the wrong side of management or HR, yet). Can anyone comment on whether this is US specific or if it applies equally in western Europe?
- vacri 12y ago
  I don't know about western Europe, but here in Australia, I've heard the story "I went to HR and things improved" exactly once. Usually it's a neutral 'we can't do anything' and sometimes it's makes things so much worse. I've heard far more success going outside HR channels - like say talking to a boss's boss or a boss's colleague.
- kelukelugames 12y ago
  Let's say you are a female employee and a college hire calls you a sexist term during a meeting. Then yes, by all means go to HR. However, if your manager did something inappropriate in private then whose side do you think HR will take?
  - EliRivers 12y ago
    Then yes, by all means go to HR. You will be labelled as a troublemaker. That college hire will be in trouble as well (not for what he did, but because he has made the company vulnerable to action), but your record will be marked (almost certainly not literally; they're not stupid enough to outright leave actionable evidence like that).
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  Corporations value consistency over correctness. Your manager is your manager because the company trusts him. Even if the evidence suggests strongly that your boss is in the wrong, the best you're likely to get is a pyrrhic victory: the boss goes down, but so do you. It takes a whole-team revolt to beat a bad boss through HR channels, and most people aren't willing to put their careers at risk. Not only that, but after you beat a bad boss, you're still viewed with suspicion by managers ("protect our own") and will have a hard time getting a transfer or promotion.
- jcadam 12y ago
  I tried taking a grievance to HR once. Once. Lesson learned (the hard way, as usual for me). Now I just look for a new job if my manager is a tool.
kmonsen 12y ago
They also know the laws and the politics of the company much better than you so you are playing on their turf.

greenyoda 12y ago

"4. Consult with an employment lawyer." Talking to an employment lawyer is a very good idea, since you may be getting fired in retaliation for reporting illegal activity: "the 'expert' turned out to be producing documents that are not in compliance with Federal law." You might have a case for a wrongful dismissal lawsuit, which could give you leverage to get a hefty severance payment to make the case (and adverse publicity) go away by settling out of court. So definitely consult a good lawyer who practices employment law in your state. "2. Document everything... 3. Save proof of the violations." Needless to say, don't save these on your company computer, since the moment they decide to fire you you'll lose access to it. "1. Do not talk to anyone else in the company about this issue. Do not trust HR or legal." For more information on the role of HR and why they shouldn't be trusted, read the book Corporate Confidential by Cynthia Shapiro (which I learned about from a comment on HN a while back; thanks to whoever posted that!). Link to book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312337361 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312337361

kelukelugames 12y ago
I'm so happy to see someone else recommend this book. :)