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> and I've turned down a number that would have made me retirement wealthy based on precisely that logic. How many have you turned down that would have yielded

by kareemm 12y ago

> and I've turned down a number that would have made me retirement wealthy based on precisely that logic. How many have you turned down that would have yielded zero? > Quitting a six-figure job, forgoing income for a year-plus, taking the risks of never getting liftoff or financing, taking another year or more at way-below-market angel-funded salary... Absent forgoing income entirely, most seed-stage employees take the same amount of risk. > you're getting all of the career and relationship equity of having been a key player on a huge success. The problem is that every founder is selling this vision to early hires, but joining a seed-stage company is almost always too early to determine whether you're joining a huge success or a company that will flame out in any of a hundred ways. > I would argue that early-stage roles, if you can tolerate the opportunity cost over the near term, are one of the better deals going I would argue that early-stage roles at companies that become successful are one of the better deals going. > and likely (though only arguably) better than being an under-ready founder with a high likelihood of failure. In my experience being a founder is a much better teacher than being an under-ready early-stage employee. Being responsible for the success of the company provides opportunities for growth like nothing else.

gregcohn 12y ago
Hey Kareem, long time! This is an important discussion, and my comments shouldn't be interpreted to mean I don't think joining an early-stage company is risky. It is! But it is easy to be too conservative with the OP's logic, and not everyone is ready to be a founder, so I think it's a great spot for people who have some risk tolerance but still want to build learnings and networks, and it has potential to turn out well financially too. And, you get a lot more opportunity to see data before you join, and to leave early, if it's not going anywhere. To answer your question, I have turned down my share startup deals that would have had no stock upside, and accepted a few too. But I've also turned down a number of opportunities that clearly had breakout potential, and in aggregate, if measuring strictly by wealth creation potential, I believe I sub-optimized by not taking more of the startup gigs that were offered to me. (There were other personal reasons for these decisions too, which offset those outcomes.) YMMV!
- kareemm 12y ago
  Hey Greg =) > I think it's a great spot for people who have some risk tolerance but still want to build learnings and networks Agreed - I think that learning and networks are two major upsides of early-stage co's. My original point though was how, relative to other options, I still don't think it's a great deal. But indeed, YMMV :)

by kareemm 12y ago

gregcohn 12y ago

Hey Kareem, long time! This is an important discussion, and my comments shouldn't be interpreted to mean I don't think joining an early-stage company is risky. It is! But it is easy to be too conservative with the OP's logic, and not everyone is ready to be a founder, so I think it's a great spot for people who have some risk tolerance but still want to build learnings and networks, and it has potential to turn out well financially too. And, you get a lot more opportunity to see data before you join, and to leave early, if it's not going anywhere. To answer your question, I have turned down my share startup deals that would have had no stock upside, and accepted a few too. But I've also turned down a number of opportunities that clearly had breakout potential, and in aggregate, if measuring strictly by wealth creation potential, I believe I sub-optimized by not taking more of the startup gigs that were offered to me. (There were other personal reasons for these decisions too, which offset those outcomes.) YMMV!

kareemm 12y ago
Hey Greg =) > I think it's a great spot for people who have some risk tolerance but still want to build learnings and networks Agreed - I think that learning and networks are two major upsides of early-stage co's. My original point though was how, relative to other options, I still don't think it's a great deal. But indeed, YMMV :)