3 ms·

I'm not convinced its not any less childish screwing around just because it generates a shared vocabulary for people. It's not progress of culture or language,

I'm not convinced its not any less childish screwing around just because it generates a shared vocabulary for people. It's not progress of culture or language, simply an increase of quantity of slang and in-jokes.

eropple 11y ago
I'm curious, have you ever read Shakespeare? Because Shakespeare's slang and in-jokes are normal English today.
- justathrow2k 11y ago
  That's not a very compelling argument. edit: The comparison to Shakespeare just seems kind of off, but beyond that, I never argued that the vernacular / slang being generated today wouldn't be used or become accepted by society at large.
  - jasode 11y ago
    To me, the follow 2 sentences look like they contradict each other: >It's not progress of culture or language, simply an increase of quantity of slang >, I never argued that the vernacular / slang being generated today wouldn't be used or become accepted by society at large. If those 2 sentences are not contradictions, can you clarify your comment? Isn't "accepted by society at large" part of what culture __is__ ?
    - justathrow2k 11y ago
      Something being accepted by society does not imply progress.
      - jasode 11y ago
        You're using "progress" as a judgement of something that's "better" or "improved" ... like "technological progress". A "language progress" is a movement in usage and meaning. We "progressed" from "thy" "thee" to "your" "you" etc. It doesn't mean the words starting with "y" are "better" or "clearer" (in fact, they are the opposite of the previous formal/informal distinctions.) Nevertheless, language/culture has moved on.
        justathrow2k 11y ago
        I agree with the example of the macro usage of thy->thee->you/your as being an instance of progression, but I don't see the current trends in internet slang as a parallel example of something that will have such a long lasting effect on our language as a whole, but instead, well, just what I said, I see it as a trend that will eventually be a ghost. This is a prediction, of course.
        musername 11y ago
        it's called pro-gress. the optimistic interpretation is for a move to the better
        musername 11y ago
        it's called pro-gress. the optimistic interpretation is for a move to the better
      - robotresearcher 11y ago
        There is no progress. English is not better than it used to be. It was not wrong in Shakespeare's day and it's not wrong now. We have new words for new things. Adaptation is not progress.
- LyndsySimon 11y ago
  Some of it is; others are obscure references that must be explained along with the historical context. Still others are likely lost forever.
visakanv 11y ago
> I'm not convinced its not any less childish screwing around just because it generates a shared vocabulary for people. It's not progress of culture or language, simply an increase of quantity of slang and in-jokes. Why not both? Culture and language "progresses" (progress implies linearity– might be more accurate to say "develops" or "unfolds") through slang and in-jokes! Check out linguist John McWorther's work on this subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McWhorter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McWhorter In fact it's quite interestingly parallel to how technology often starts out as toys and games (and instruments of war and pornography).
- justathrow2k 11y ago
  I just fail to see the progress part here, I suppose. Maybe my view of this is daft, but the slang being created by the generation today isn't helping us say things we couldn't say before or moving anything forward - its simply the nature of slang, it constantly changes through the generations.
  - visakanv 11y ago
    I'm curious to hear your thoughts about what progress has been so far. What do you feel have been works or movements or creations from the past that allowed for progress?
    - justathrow2k 11y ago
      ah, I believe if we got into a deep conversation about that here it would be a bit of a derail. You can e-mail me at sevensharpscales at gmail dot com if you're genuinely curious about my thoughts on this subject. Personally, I don't think they'll be of much interest.

eropple 11y ago

I'm curious, have you ever read Shakespeare? Because Shakespeare's slang and in-jokes are normal English today.

justathrow2k 11y ago
That's not a very compelling argument. edit: The comparison to Shakespeare just seems kind of off, but beyond that, I never argued that the vernacular / slang being generated today wouldn't be used or become accepted by society at large.
- jasode 11y ago
  To me, the follow 2 sentences look like they contradict each other: >It's not progress of culture or language, simply an increase of quantity of slang >, I never argued that the vernacular / slang being generated today wouldn't be used or become accepted by society at large. If those 2 sentences are not contradictions, can you clarify your comment? Isn't "accepted by society at large" part of what culture __is__ ?
  - justathrow2k 11y ago
    Something being accepted by society does not imply progress.
    - jasode 11y ago
      You're using "progress" as a judgement of something that's "better" or "improved" ... like "technological progress". A "language progress" is a movement in usage and meaning. We "progressed" from "thy" "thee" to "your" "you" etc. It doesn't mean the words starting with "y" are "better" or "clearer" (in fact, they are the opposite of the previous formal/informal distinctions.) Nevertheless, language/culture has moved on.
      - justathrow2k 11y ago
        I agree with the example of the macro usage of thy->thee->you/your as being an instance of progression, but I don't see the current trends in internet slang as a parallel example of something that will have such a long lasting effect on our language as a whole, but instead, well, just what I said, I see it as a trend that will eventually be a ghost. This is a prediction, of course.
      - musername 11y ago
        it's called pro-gress. the optimistic interpretation is for a move to the better
      - musername 11y ago
        it's called pro-gress. the optimistic interpretation is for a move to the better
    - robotresearcher 11y ago
      There is no progress. English is not better than it used to be. It was not wrong in Shakespeare's day and it's not wrong now. We have new words for new things. Adaptation is not progress.
LyndsySimon 11y ago
Some of it is; others are obscure references that must be explained along with the historical context. Still others are likely lost forever.

visakanv 11y ago

> I'm not convinced its not any less childish screwing around just because it generates a shared vocabulary for people. It's not progress of culture or language, simply an increase of quantity of slang and in-jokes. Why not both? Culture and language "progresses" (progress implies linearity– might be more accurate to say "develops" or "unfolds") through slang and in-jokes! Check out linguist John McWorther's work on this subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McWhorter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McWhorter In fact it's quite interestingly parallel to how technology often starts out as toys and games (and instruments of war and pornography).

justathrow2k 11y ago
I just fail to see the progress part here, I suppose. Maybe my view of this is daft, but the slang being created by the generation today isn't helping us say things we couldn't say before or moving anything forward - its simply the nature of slang, it constantly changes through the generations.
- visakanv 11y ago
  I'm curious to hear your thoughts about what progress has been so far. What do you feel have been works or movements or creations from the past that allowed for progress?
  - justathrow2k 11y ago
    ah, I believe if we got into a deep conversation about that here it would be a bit of a derail. You can e-mail me at sevensharpscales at gmail dot com if you're genuinely curious about my thoughts on this subject. Personally, I don't think they'll be of much interest.