3 ms·

It was never going to be. Any language claiming to be the new web language needs to convince Google, Apple, and Microsoft to all cooperate and put it in their b

It was never going to be. Any language claiming to be the new web language needs to convince Google, Apple, and Microsoft to all cooperate and put it in their browsers. So any language created by just one of the three of them is dead in the water.

frik 11y ago
> So any language created by just one of the three of them is dead in the water. Have a look how Microsoft influenced JavaScript/ECMAScript 6+ with their TypeScript intermediate language lead by Anders Hejlsberg. MS shaped ES6 how they wanted, Trojan horse or "Elop" style. Not at all surprising given the companies long extensive history (IBM, DOS, OS/2, Novell, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Internet Explorer, Nokia). JavaScript was always a prototype inheritance based language, with ES6 it got the "class" keyword (syntactic sugar) from class inheritance based language (Java or the inspired C# from Hejlsberg): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototypal_inheritance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototypal_inheritance , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TypeScript http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TypeScript , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Elop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Elop (Ex-MS, Ex-Nokia, MS Trojan horse) JavaScript5 is a lean and nice language if one adheres to the "Good Parts" of Douglas Crockford. Some of the ES6/7 concepts were influenced and are in the wrong direction IMHO.
- aikah 11y ago
  > Have a look how Microsoft influenced JavaScript/ECMAScript 6+ with their TypeScript intermediate language lead by Anders Hejlsberg. To say that Typescript influenced Javascript in anyway in revisionism(i.e. a blatant LIE) ES6 had classes way before Typescript. Furthermore, ES6 classes and Typescript classes are different. Typescript didn't influence ES6 at all. Most ES6 influences comes from Coffeescript and Python. Finally you're forgetting all the ES4 fiasco (basically JS looking like ActionScript3) where Microsoft said a BIG NO. So please explain us where you got the idea that Typescript influenced or is influencing ES6. Even if you consider annotations, Traceur(Google) had them before they were implemented by Yehuda in Typescript.
  - frik 11y ago
    BRENDAN [Eich (JavaScript creator)]: Again, TypeScript is smart because it’s embracing and extending. Let’s hope Microsoft doesn’t try to extinguish. That’s the third E. JAMISON: [Laughs] BRENDAN: I don’t think they will. I think they actually bought into JavaScript at some level. And I’ve talked to people like Anders Hejlsberg about this. Read/hear the full interview with Brendan Eich about "The Origin of Javascript" (incl. transcript): http://devchat.tv/js-jabber/124-jsj-the-origin-of-javascript-with-brendan-eich http://devchat.tv/js-jabber/124-jsj-the-origin-of-javascript...
    - aikah 11y ago
      I know this interview, where does it says that Typescript influenced Javascript? nowhere. In fact, as I said before, the minimal class proposal existed way before Typescript was made public. Your quote says nothing about Typescript classes being an influence for ES6, because it's not true. But perharps Eich could come here and confirm this in person.
      - BrendanEich 11y ago
        Confirm: ES6 and the Harmony agenda influenced TypeScript. Where TS went its own way on things like open modules, MS has promised to track the Ecma standard versions ASAP. In particular, TS classes were purely an extension to ES6's design, while ES6 was not frozen. There was not feedback the other way, at least not phrased in terms of TS -- the MS folks on TC39 had to make more generalized arguments for changing the draft ES6 spec.
        aikah 11y ago
        Thanks mister. regards.
- jayvanguard 11y ago
  Any of the three of them can and have influenced the direction of Javascript incrementally throughs standards groups and implementing features that become de facto via popularity. None of them can replace it with another language.
rockdoe 11y ago
needs to convince Google, Apple, and Microsoft to all cooperate I would certainly have added Mozilla to the list. Just look what's happening with asm.js, which is really the closest thing to what's being discussed. It didn't get adopted by the others until much later and it's certainly winning in its particular niche.

frik 11y ago

> So any language created by just one of the three of them is dead in the water. Have a look how Microsoft influenced JavaScript/ECMAScript 6+ with their TypeScript intermediate language lead by Anders Hejlsberg. MS shaped ES6 how they wanted, Trojan horse or "Elop" style. Not at all surprising given the companies long extensive history (IBM, DOS, OS/2, Novell, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Internet Explorer, Nokia). JavaScript was always a prototype inheritance based language, with ES6 it got the "class" keyword (syntactic sugar) from class inheritance based language (Java or the inspired C# from Hejlsberg): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototypal_inheritance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototypal_inheritance , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TypeScript http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TypeScript , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Elop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Elop (Ex-MS, Ex-Nokia, MS Trojan horse) JavaScript5 is a lean and nice language if one adheres to the "Good Parts" of Douglas Crockford. Some of the ES6/7 concepts were influenced and are in the wrong direction IMHO.

aikah 11y ago
> Have a look how Microsoft influenced JavaScript/ECMAScript 6+ with their TypeScript intermediate language lead by Anders Hejlsberg. To say that Typescript influenced Javascript in anyway in revisionism(i.e. a blatant LIE) ES6 had classes way before Typescript. Furthermore, ES6 classes and Typescript classes are different. Typescript didn't influence ES6 at all. Most ES6 influences comes from Coffeescript and Python. Finally you're forgetting all the ES4 fiasco (basically JS looking like ActionScript3) where Microsoft said a BIG NO. So please explain us where you got the idea that Typescript influenced or is influencing ES6. Even if you consider annotations, Traceur(Google) had them before they were implemented by Yehuda in Typescript.
- frik 11y ago
  BRENDAN [Eich (JavaScript creator)]: Again, TypeScript is smart because it’s embracing and extending. Let’s hope Microsoft doesn’t try to extinguish. That’s the third E. JAMISON: [Laughs] BRENDAN: I don’t think they will. I think they actually bought into JavaScript at some level. And I’ve talked to people like Anders Hejlsberg about this. Read/hear the full interview with Brendan Eich about "The Origin of Javascript" (incl. transcript): http://devchat.tv/js-jabber/124-jsj-the-origin-of-javascript-with-brendan-eich http://devchat.tv/js-jabber/124-jsj-the-origin-of-javascript...
  - aikah 11y ago
    I know this interview, where does it says that Typescript influenced Javascript? nowhere. In fact, as I said before, the minimal class proposal existed way before Typescript was made public. Your quote says nothing about Typescript classes being an influence for ES6, because it's not true. But perharps Eich could come here and confirm this in person.
    - BrendanEich 11y ago
      Confirm: ES6 and the Harmony agenda influenced TypeScript. Where TS went its own way on things like open modules, MS has promised to track the Ecma standard versions ASAP. In particular, TS classes were purely an extension to ES6's design, while ES6 was not frozen. There was not feedback the other way, at least not phrased in terms of TS -- the MS folks on TC39 had to make more generalized arguments for changing the draft ES6 spec.
      - aikah 11y ago
        Thanks mister. regards.
jayvanguard 11y ago
Any of the three of them can and have influenced the direction of Javascript incrementally throughs standards groups and implementing features that become de facto via popularity. None of them can replace it with another language.

rockdoe 11y ago

needs to convince Google, Apple, and Microsoft to all cooperate I would certainly have added Mozilla to the list. Just look what's happening with asm.js, which is really the closest thing to what's being discussed. It didn't get adopted by the others until much later and it's certainly winning in its particular niche.