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I liked this. Particularly: I’m a fan of all the betentacled linguistic lifeforms that have emerged from our cambrian explosion online. These days, people writ

I liked this. Particularly: I’m a fan of all the betentacled linguistic lifeforms that have emerged from our cambrian explosion online. These days, people write insanely more text than they did before the Internet and mobile phones came along. So the volume of experimentation is correspondingly massive and, for me, delightful. One joy of our age is watching wordplay evolve at the pace of E.coli. and Most of these syntax-morphing memes consist of us trying to find clever new ways to express our feelings. The effect of image boards really is fascinating. What at first seemed to be childish screwing around is proving to be an amazing engine of new culture and language. such wow

musername 12y ago
just as with many other online media, a lot of content is artificially constructed. The work going into wordplay and ironic remarks with potential for virality are not unlike what we have seen in marketing and media for a while, just at different scale.
- pcl 12y ago
  I'm assuming that when you say "artificially constructed," you mean that groups of people are sitting down and brainstorming according to some sort of master plan, which presumably looks something like: 1. Invent and popularize new grammar games 2. ??? 3. Profit! I've heard people bring up this angle before once or twice, but I really don't see where the profit would come from for many of the things that catch on. Do you have any sources for your theory? Has anyone dug into it enough to find these [adjective] masterminds?
- visakanv 12y ago
  Fair enough, though then you have to say that the Sophists artificially constructed their arguments, too. (Socrates was very against this.) And every sellout author since the origin of the printing press artificially constructed his or her books to appeal to the public. The news is artificially constructed– if it bleeds, it leads. A lot of everything is "artificially constructed". The Beatles artificially constructed their songs. Any sufficiently advanced "artificial construction" is indistinguishable from "organic construction".
justathrow2k 12y ago
I'm not convinced its not any less childish screwing around just because it generates a shared vocabulary for people. It's not progress of culture or language, simply an increase of quantity of slang and in-jokes.
- eropple 12y ago
  I'm curious, have you ever read Shakespeare? Because Shakespeare's slang and in-jokes are normal English today.
  - justathrow2k 12y ago
    That's not a very compelling argument. edit: The comparison to Shakespeare just seems kind of off, but beyond that, I never argued that the vernacular / slang being generated today wouldn't be used or become accepted by society at large.
    - jasode 12y ago
      To me, the follow 2 sentences look like they contradict each other: >It's not progress of culture or language, simply an increase of quantity of slang >, I never argued that the vernacular / slang being generated today wouldn't be used or become accepted by society at large. If those 2 sentences are not contradictions, can you clarify your comment? Isn't "accepted by society at large" part of what culture __is__ ?
      - justathrow2k 12y ago
        Something being accepted by society does not imply progress.
        jasode 12y ago
        You're using "progress" as a judgement of something that's "better" or "improved" ... like "technological progress". A "language progress" is a movement in usage and meaning. We "progressed" from "thy" "thee" to "your" "you" etc. It doesn't mean the words starting with "y" are "better" or "clearer" (in fact, they are the opposite of the previous formal/informal distinctions.) Nevertheless, language/culture has moved on.
neltnerb 12y ago
Yeah, this is what I liked about it too. I like the idea of common English evolving on time scales at which it may legitimately become mutually incomprehensible over the course of my lifetime. Language isn't static, and I love the idea of more versatile forms with fewer rules providing new generally accepted grammars for creative writing. I also like how this change in English seems to be fascinatingly in the direction of several Asian languages where sections are dropped if they are considered obvious enough. Although English has its own charms in having so much more flexibility in word ordering, it's not as succinct in allowing for dropped sections. I'm afraid that people who get pissed off about the singular "they" or other such conventions are going to very rapidly be incapable of communicating with younger people at all. That's fascinating to think about.

musername 12y ago

just as with many other online media, a lot of content is artificially constructed. The work going into wordplay and ironic remarks with potential for virality are not unlike what we have seen in marketing and media for a while, just at different scale.

pcl 12y ago
I'm assuming that when you say "artificially constructed," you mean that groups of people are sitting down and brainstorming according to some sort of master plan, which presumably looks something like: 1. Invent and popularize new grammar games 2. ??? 3. Profit! I've heard people bring up this angle before once or twice, but I really don't see where the profit would come from for many of the things that catch on. Do you have any sources for your theory? Has anyone dug into it enough to find these [adjective] masterminds?
visakanv 12y ago
Fair enough, though then you have to say that the Sophists artificially constructed their arguments, too. (Socrates was very against this.) And every sellout author since the origin of the printing press artificially constructed his or her books to appeal to the public. The news is artificially constructed– if it bleeds, it leads. A lot of everything is "artificially constructed". The Beatles artificially constructed their songs. Any sufficiently advanced "artificial construction" is indistinguishable from "organic construction".

justathrow2k 12y ago

I'm not convinced its not any less childish screwing around just because it generates a shared vocabulary for people. It's not progress of culture or language, simply an increase of quantity of slang and in-jokes.

eropple 12y ago
I'm curious, have you ever read Shakespeare? Because Shakespeare's slang and in-jokes are normal English today.
- justathrow2k 12y ago
  That's not a very compelling argument. edit: The comparison to Shakespeare just seems kind of off, but beyond that, I never argued that the vernacular / slang being generated today wouldn't be used or become accepted by society at large.
  - jasode 12y ago
    To me, the follow 2 sentences look like they contradict each other: >It's not progress of culture or language, simply an increase of quantity of slang >, I never argued that the vernacular / slang being generated today wouldn't be used or become accepted by society at large. If those 2 sentences are not contradictions, can you clarify your comment? Isn't "accepted by society at large" part of what culture __is__ ?
    - justathrow2k 12y ago
      Something being accepted by society does not imply progress.
      - jasode 12y ago
        You're using "progress" as a judgement of something that's "better" or "improved" ... like "technological progress". A "language progress" is a movement in usage and meaning. We "progressed" from "thy" "thee" to "your" "you" etc. It doesn't mean the words starting with "y" are "better" or "clearer" (in fact, they are the opposite of the previous formal/informal distinctions.) Nevertheless, language/culture has moved on.

neltnerb 12y ago

Yeah, this is what I liked about it too. I like the idea of common English evolving on time scales at which it may legitimately become mutually incomprehensible over the course of my lifetime. Language isn't static, and I love the idea of more versatile forms with fewer rules providing new generally accepted grammars for creative writing. I also like how this change in English seems to be fascinatingly in the direction of several Asian languages where sections are dropped if they are considered obvious enough. Although English has its own charms in having so much more flexibility in word ordering, it's not as succinct in allowing for dropped sections. I'm afraid that people who get pissed off about the singular "they" or other such conventions are going to very rapidly be incapable of communicating with younger people at all. That's fascinating to think about.