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The story is one more anecdote for a point adults need be keenly aware of: adults have (at least, we expect) a positive framework to establish negative experien

The story is one more anecdote for a point adults need be keenly aware of: adults have (at least, we expect) a positive framework to establish negative experiences upon, while children faced with those negative experiences don't have such a positive framework - instead, the negative experiences become the framework, leading to long-term dysfunction. A key anecdote for this is the Shrek movies, overflowing with humorous satire - unaware that a good chunk of the audience doesn't know what's being satirized, and hence takes the stories as the foundation instead of the facade. TL;DR - a child star of a Terry Gilliam film writes him, decades later, to describe the sheer terror she felt acting out the film and how that terror caused her social/emotional problems growing up; Gilliam responds in surprise/confusion/appreciation, lauding how solid an actor she was at age 9, and unaware of the effect it had on her.

btown 12y ago
It seems like you're referencing some sort of psychology study or finding about children's reactions to Shrek - I was unaware that there was any child-psychology-based controversy about its use of satire whatsoever! Searches for "Shrek controversy" don't seem to mention anything nearly like this - do you have any references to the phenomenon you mention?
- ctdonath 12y ago
  Yes: I'm a parent.
  - oldmanjay 12y ago
    that's interesting how you used the word yes but actually ended up not having the answer. certainly you didn't mean that as parent you feel that your emotion is a reference?
stefantalpalaru 12y ago
Yes, children don't understand satire because satire is complicated, but that won't affect their enjoyment of the movie. The satire is there for you, the adult stuck in a cinema for 90 minutes, watching yet another rehash of an old story.
cafard 12y ago
I never saw Shrek, but I remember my son and a friend's son, aged maybe 10 and 6, having watched it with no apparent distress.
rdtsc 12y ago
I think any popular and kids movie will insert innuendos, sarcasm and things like that in there. I suspect that often addressed for the adults. In other words it is a multi-layered thing going on. I don't know which cartoons but some have had pretty adult references in there, but it would take an adult to understand. Kids might ask "hey, why are you laughing?". However I agree with the idea of positive vs negative framework in general. And think there is even a temporal dimension in it. By that I mean that almost all childrens' shows have some kind of a conflict in the beginning -- someone behaving badly, someone being shamed, ignored, maybe not sharing, or other negative behavior like that. Later in the story that is resolved and the protagonist learns a life lesson -- "ok, be nice to your friends", "listen to your parents" etc. Except the problem is at a certain age children cannot follow the continuity of the story they just see a character fighting, behaving badly, etc and they copy it.
vacri 12y ago
I'm curious as to what you see in Shrek-without-satire that is harmful to children. What's the negative foundation that it builds?
ChristianGeek 12y ago
Actually, I thought it was kind of a dick response on Gilliam's part. He completely dismisses her feelings at the time and the effect the experience had on her by half-heartedly assuring her she was safer than she thought, and then immediately goes on to ask her how well he did with her body double.

btown 12y ago

It seems like you're referencing some sort of psychology study or finding about children's reactions to Shrek - I was unaware that there was any child-psychology-based controversy about its use of satire whatsoever! Searches for "Shrek controversy" don't seem to mention anything nearly like this - do you have any references to the phenomenon you mention?

ctdonath 12y ago
Yes: I'm a parent.
- oldmanjay 12y ago
  that's interesting how you used the word yes but actually ended up not having the answer. certainly you didn't mean that as parent you feel that your emotion is a reference?

stefantalpalaru 12y ago

Yes, children don't understand satire because satire is complicated, but that won't affect their enjoyment of the movie. The satire is there for you, the adult stuck in a cinema for 90 minutes, watching yet another rehash of an old story.

cafard 12y ago

I never saw Shrek, but I remember my son and a friend's son, aged maybe 10 and 6, having watched it with no apparent distress.

rdtsc 12y ago

I think any popular and kids movie will insert innuendos, sarcasm and things like that in there. I suspect that often addressed for the adults. In other words it is a multi-layered thing going on. I don't know which cartoons but some have had pretty adult references in there, but it would take an adult to understand. Kids might ask "hey, why are you laughing?". However I agree with the idea of positive vs negative framework in general. And think there is even a temporal dimension in it. By that I mean that almost all childrens' shows have some kind of a conflict in the beginning -- someone behaving badly, someone being shamed, ignored, maybe not sharing, or other negative behavior like that. Later in the story that is resolved and the protagonist learns a life lesson -- "ok, be nice to your friends", "listen to your parents" etc. Except the problem is at a certain age children cannot follow the continuity of the story they just see a character fighting, behaving badly, etc and they copy it.

vacri 12y ago

I'm curious as to what you see in Shrek-without-satire that is harmful to children. What's the negative foundation that it builds?

ChristianGeek 12y ago

Actually, I thought it was kind of a dick response on Gilliam's part. He completely dismisses her feelings at the time and the effect the experience had on her by half-heartedly assuring her she was safer than she thought, and then immediately goes on to ask her how well he did with her body double.