5 ms·

The MBTI is meaningless. http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2009/10/the_personality_paradox.php http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2009/10/the_personality_parad...

araneae 17y ago
All that says is that behavior is highly context dependent. No one is disputing that. However, twin studies have shown us that despite that, personality characteristics are highly heritable. This suggests that despite differences in behavior due to context, there are genetic and thus pervasive personality traits that are fairly immutable.
- xenophanes 17y ago
  Twin studies have not shown that. Please cite it and state the definition of "heritable" used in the study you cite (in general, they do not use the definition one might expect). Also, going from "genetic" to "immutable" is a non sequitur, and is not supported in any way by twin studies. It sometimes turns out that genetic features (such as hair color) are not so hard to change after all (e.g. with dye).
  - salvadors 17y ago
    Dye doesn't change your hair colour. It simply masks it for a little while.
  - araneae 17y ago
    There is only one definition of heritability used in biology, and it's the one I mean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability#Definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability#Definition Your implication that it's disingenuous that the layman's definition differs from the scientist's definition... is dumb. And again, I didn't say that personality was immutable. I said that part of it was. Longitudinal studies show that a correlations of personality across an individual's lifetime is about .83, which is pretty damn high. http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.ps.41.020190.002221 http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.... There are a billion and a half studies on this, and heritability estimates range between 20-45% for different personality traits being tested. http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0070366055/student_view0/chapter4/chapter_outline.html http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0070366055/student_vie...
    - xenophanes 17y ago
      No need to call me dumb! Here is an explanation about the word heritability: http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/520.html http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/520.html Whether a person does change their personality is a different issue than whether it could be changed (possibly requiring some new knowledge, or possibly simply requiring a change in preferences). So that correlation study doesn't provide evidence of immutability. I know there are a lot of studies on heritability. Now, if you are interested in an open discussion, cite one study that you stand behind, and state the definition of heritability it uses, in your own words or quoting from the study itself.
      - araneae 17y ago
        I didn't call you dumb. I said that your implication was dumb. And it still is. I'm not really sure what you wanted me to get out of that blog post. I did cite a study- I linked to it. And the definition of heritability is still the same.

araneae 17y ago

All that says is that behavior is highly context dependent. No one is disputing that. However, twin studies have shown us that despite that, personality characteristics are highly heritable. This suggests that despite differences in behavior due to context, there are genetic and thus pervasive personality traits that are fairly immutable.

xenophanes 17y ago
Twin studies have not shown that. Please cite it and state the definition of "heritable" used in the study you cite (in general, they do not use the definition one might expect). Also, going from "genetic" to "immutable" is a non sequitur, and is not supported in any way by twin studies. It sometimes turns out that genetic features (such as hair color) are not so hard to change after all (e.g. with dye).
- salvadors 17y ago
  Dye doesn't change your hair colour. It simply masks it for a little while.
- araneae 17y ago
  There is only one definition of heritability used in biology, and it's the one I mean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability#Definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability#Definition Your implication that it's disingenuous that the layman's definition differs from the scientist's definition... is dumb. And again, I didn't say that personality was immutable. I said that part of it was. Longitudinal studies show that a correlations of personality across an individual's lifetime is about .83, which is pretty damn high. http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.ps.41.020190.002221 http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.... There are a billion and a half studies on this, and heritability estimates range between 20-45% for different personality traits being tested. http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0070366055/student_view0/chapter4/chapter_outline.html http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0070366055/student_vie...
  - xenophanes 17y ago
    No need to call me dumb! Here is an explanation about the word heritability: http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/520.html http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/520.html Whether a person does change their personality is a different issue than whether it could be changed (possibly requiring some new knowledge, or possibly simply requiring a change in preferences). So that correlation study doesn't provide evidence of immutability. I know there are a lot of studies on heritability. Now, if you are interested in an open discussion, cite one study that you stand behind, and state the definition of heritability it uses, in your own words or quoting from the study itself.
    - araneae 17y ago
      I didn't call you dumb. I said that your implication was dumb. And it still is. I'm not really sure what you wanted me to get out of that blog post. I did cite a study- I linked to it. And the definition of heritability is still the same.