7 ms·

You can always write dang at hn@ycombinator.com when you spot stuff that might be circumventing the rules.

by benologist 12y ago

walterbell 12y ago
What remedies would HN have for indiscriminate downvoting?
- plorkyeran 12y ago
  Removing the person's ability to downvote if they're clearly severely misusing it.
- buro9 12y ago
  A number of things could be done, though the long-term effect of them might not be desired. Perhaps the threshold whereby you are permitted to downvote should be raised. Perhaps HN could allow karma to be 'spent' as downvotes. The act of downvoting would be something that costs you, and unless you're a top 100 commenter that's probably going to make you hesitate. HN probably already check for and punish the malicious downvoter, i.e. so-and-so said something that I didn't like and so I'm going to go through their historical comments downvoting all. That stuff is really easy to detect. HN could probably check whether downvotes given by a person occur on a few topics, or for a few individuals. These are probably slightly angry downvotes, they could be reversed. Ultimately though they'd hit a grey area. There are obvious and easy things to deal with, and once those low hanging fruits are grabbed then everything else is nuanced, it has context and requires understanding to moderate fairly.
- PeterWhittaker 12y ago
  Eliminate downvoting. Replace it with "flag as abusive, reason required". Require the reason to be selected from a very short, concise list, e.g., "rascist, mysogynistic, homophobic, espouses violence, spam". Block userids that flag inappropriately.
pen2l 12y ago
What if it actually is dang/HN that's responsible for these downvotes? I think the downvoting is a new version of "rankbanning" mechanism. Users that are anti-immigration reform are rankbanned on HN (this means that no matter the number of votes on the post, their comments fall down in the page. Users like eli_gottlieb, larrys, etc. are rankbanned for these various reasons; some people detected this and called HN on it, and I think their response is to make a new system which auto-downvotes users... then it makes it seem like their comments are organically falling down the page, rather than being targeted by rankbans.)
- xtrumanx 12y ago
  Got a link to the call-out regarding the rankbanning? I've never heard of that happening.
  - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
    https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/heres-why-paul-graham-probably-owes-me-an-apology/ https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/heres-why-pa...
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - pen2l 12y ago
    See blogpost by michaelochurch where he proves this. Examples of users currently on rankban include larrys, eli_gottlieb, thinkcomp, DanielBMarkham, etc. This is verifiable quite easily if you go into the comment history of these users. Take eli_gottlieb, for example. Sure, he often voices quasi-Marxist views, but why do his posts on technical things fall down so rapidly? Even below heavily downvoted trolls? Why did his post in 'Who wants to be hired?' so heavily sink to the very bottom? Lastly, some users who have engaged with HN moderators via email were taken off of rankbans, so they have never denied that these rankban mechanisms exist, they generally remain silent when this is brought up, and try to force the conversation surrounding it to a private medium ("please email us at support@ycombinator.com", etc.)

You can always write dang at hn@ycombinator.com when you spot stuff that might be circumventing the rules.

walterbell 12y ago

What remedies would HN have for indiscriminate downvoting?

plorkyeran 12y ago
Removing the person's ability to downvote if they're clearly severely misusing it.
buro9 12y ago
A number of things could be done, though the long-term effect of them might not be desired. Perhaps the threshold whereby you are permitted to downvote should be raised. Perhaps HN could allow karma to be 'spent' as downvotes. The act of downvoting would be something that costs you, and unless you're a top 100 commenter that's probably going to make you hesitate. HN probably already check for and punish the malicious downvoter, i.e. so-and-so said something that I didn't like and so I'm going to go through their historical comments downvoting all. That stuff is really easy to detect. HN could probably check whether downvotes given by a person occur on a few topics, or for a few individuals. These are probably slightly angry downvotes, they could be reversed. Ultimately though they'd hit a grey area. There are obvious and easy things to deal with, and once those low hanging fruits are grabbed then everything else is nuanced, it has context and requires understanding to moderate fairly.
PeterWhittaker 12y ago
Eliminate downvoting. Replace it with "flag as abusive, reason required". Require the reason to be selected from a very short, concise list, e.g., "rascist, mysogynistic, homophobic, espouses violence, spam". Block userids that flag inappropriately.

pen2l 12y ago

What if it actually is dang/HN that's responsible for these downvotes? I think the downvoting is a new version of "rankbanning" mechanism. Users that are anti-immigration reform are rankbanned on HN (this means that no matter the number of votes on the post, their comments fall down in the page. Users like eli_gottlieb, larrys, etc. are rankbanned for these various reasons; some people detected this and called HN on it, and I think their response is to make a new system which auto-downvotes users... then it makes it seem like their comments are organically falling down the page, rather than being targeted by rankbans.)

xtrumanx 12y ago
Got a link to the call-out regarding the rankbanning? I've never heard of that happening.
- TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
  https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/heres-why-paul-graham-probably-owes-me-an-apology/ https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/heres-why-pa...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- pen2l 12y ago
  See blogpost by michaelochurch where he proves this. Examples of users currently on rankban include larrys, eli_gottlieb, thinkcomp, DanielBMarkham, etc. This is verifiable quite easily if you go into the comment history of these users. Take eli_gottlieb, for example. Sure, he often voices quasi-Marxist views, but why do his posts on technical things fall down so rapidly? Even below heavily downvoted trolls? Why did his post in 'Who wants to be hired?' so heavily sink to the very bottom? Lastly, some users who have engaged with HN moderators via email were taken off of rankbans, so they have never denied that these rankban mechanisms exist, they generally remain silent when this is brought up, and try to force the conversation surrounding it to a private medium ("please email us at support@ycombinator.com", etc.)