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The patent appears to be about selecting a network carrier using a bidding process. The device can choose a network based on price and quality of service. What

by xxgreg 11y ago

The patent appears to be about selecting a network carrier using a bidding process. The device can choose a network based on price and quality of service. What prior art is there for this?

IBM 11y ago
Apple has one about selecting a network carrier using a bidding process. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=5&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=%2820110208.PD.+AND+apple.ASNM.%29&OS=isd/2/8/2011+and+an/apple&RS=%28ISD/20110208+AND+AN/apple%29 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=H...
- Flimm 11y ago
  Why the downvotes?
  - psykovsky 11y ago
    I think it's because it had the word Apple when responding to a post about Google.
    - hemonthe 11y ago
      That's a prior patent not prior art i.e. Apple hasn't used it in a product yet. Moreover Apple having a patent suggests Google applied for a patent for their own implementation to avoid getting sued by Apple. Apple has a history of litigation to stifle competition.
      - IBM 11y ago
        It appears patents can serve as prior art. http://www.ericksonlawgroup.com/law/patents/patentfaq/what-is-prior-art/ http://www.ericksonlawgroup.com/law/patents/patentfaq/what-i...
cgio 11y ago
In terms of utilities this is how the energy market works for producers.
blackkettle 11y ago
Assuming that is true, and while IANAL I read it that way too, it is baffling that someone in the patent office can read something like this and not feel compelled to laugh and toss it in the dustbin. Replace 'network carrier' with 'fishmonger', 'device' with 'person', and 'network' with 'fish' and you can probably find prior art that predates recorded history.
- thaumasiotes 11y ago
  I also have the urge to laugh and toss the patent in the trash, but I don't think your example helps the case, and it might hurt. Replacing 'network carrier' with 'fishmonger' and 'network' with 'fish' works fine, but... If I say "I've created a machine that can do something humans used to have to do themselves"... is it really obvious that, based on that description alone, I should be ineligible for a patent? Substituting a new process that uses a device for an old process that uses a person is significant. You can't swap between the concepts without triggering an entirely different context.
  - falcolas 11y ago
    > Substituting a new process that uses a device for an old process that uses a person The thing is, processes are not patentable. The problem lies in the fact that there's a loophole which allows processes to be patented if they include the phrase "implemented on a machine". This loophole is the problem, since it makes something previously unpatentable (such as mathematics, business logic) patentable.
    - thaumasiotes 11y ago
      OK, look. Carrying water up a hill in buckets is a process for raising the water. Using an Archimedes screw is also a process for raising the water. Yet the Archimedes screw is (conceptually) patentable. Feel free to rephrase my earlier comment to say "A machine that does what used to require a person is significant". In fact, I'm pretty sure I used that phrasing myself just one sentence earlier -- compare "a machine that can do something humans used to have to do themselves". There's no reason a machine that can negotiate for you shouldn't be patentable, any more than a machine that can wash your clothes for you shouldn't be patentable. The problem here is that it's a stupid-obvious idea.
hurin 11y ago
> The patent appears to be about selecting a network carrier using a bidding process. The device can choose a network based on price and quality of service. What prior art is there for this? It's a common-knowledge approach in general: Obtain a service based on price and quality. Modifying that to obtain service of type __ should not represent a novel patentable idea. In a non-broken system these kind of patents would only apply to the specific selection technology/method and not to an obvious general concept. How broadly applicable it will be in practice? Who knows? I'd say since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Corp._v._CLS_Bank_International http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Corp._v._CLS_Bank_Interna... it's more promising.

by xxgreg 11y ago

The patent appears to be about selecting a network carrier using a bidding process. The device can choose a network based on price and quality of service. What prior art is there for this?

IBM 11y ago

Apple has one about selecting a network carrier using a bidding process. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=5&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=%2820110208.PD.+AND+apple.ASNM.%29&OS=isd/2/8/2011+and+an/apple&RS=%28ISD/20110208+AND+AN/apple%29 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=H...

Flimm 11y ago
Why the downvotes?
- psykovsky 11y ago
  I think it's because it had the word Apple when responding to a post about Google.
  - hemonthe 11y ago
    That's a prior patent not prior art i.e. Apple hasn't used it in a product yet. Moreover Apple having a patent suggests Google applied for a patent for their own implementation to avoid getting sued by Apple. Apple has a history of litigation to stifle competition.
    - IBM 11y ago
      It appears patents can serve as prior art. http://www.ericksonlawgroup.com/law/patents/patentfaq/what-is-prior-art/ http://www.ericksonlawgroup.com/law/patents/patentfaq/what-i...

cgio 11y ago

In terms of utilities this is how the energy market works for producers.

blackkettle 11y ago

Assuming that is true, and while IANAL I read it that way too, it is baffling that someone in the patent office can read something like this and not feel compelled to laugh and toss it in the dustbin. Replace 'network carrier' with 'fishmonger', 'device' with 'person', and 'network' with 'fish' and you can probably find prior art that predates recorded history.

thaumasiotes 11y ago
I also have the urge to laugh and toss the patent in the trash, but I don't think your example helps the case, and it might hurt. Replacing 'network carrier' with 'fishmonger' and 'network' with 'fish' works fine, but... If I say "I've created a machine that can do something humans used to have to do themselves"... is it really obvious that, based on that description alone, I should be ineligible for a patent? Substituting a new process that uses a device for an old process that uses a person is significant. You can't swap between the concepts without triggering an entirely different context.
- falcolas 11y ago
  > Substituting a new process that uses a device for an old process that uses a person The thing is, processes are not patentable. The problem lies in the fact that there's a loophole which allows processes to be patented if they include the phrase "implemented on a machine". This loophole is the problem, since it makes something previously unpatentable (such as mathematics, business logic) patentable.
  - thaumasiotes 11y ago
    OK, look. Carrying water up a hill in buckets is a process for raising the water. Using an Archimedes screw is also a process for raising the water. Yet the Archimedes screw is (conceptually) patentable. Feel free to rephrase my earlier comment to say "A machine that does what used to require a person is significant". In fact, I'm pretty sure I used that phrasing myself just one sentence earlier -- compare "a machine that can do something humans used to have to do themselves". There's no reason a machine that can negotiate for you shouldn't be patentable, any more than a machine that can wash your clothes for you shouldn't be patentable. The problem here is that it's a stupid-obvious idea.

hurin 11y ago

> The patent appears to be about selecting a network carrier using a bidding process. The device can choose a network based on price and quality of service. What prior art is there for this? It's a common-knowledge approach in general: Obtain a service based on price and quality. Modifying that to obtain service of type __ should not represent a novel patentable idea. In a non-broken system these kind of patents would only apply to the specific selection technology/method and not to an obvious general concept. How broadly applicable it will be in practice? Who knows? I'd say since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Corp._v._CLS_Bank_International http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Corp._v._CLS_Bank_Interna... it's more promising.