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> saying that they "don't encourage fun" You missed the second part of that clause, which is pretty critical context. > So unless you're really into just havi

> saying that they "don't encourage fun" You missed the second part of that clause, which is pretty critical context. > So unless you're really into just having fun - which the game mostly does not encourage in lieu of running dungeons and getting gear and etc PvP most certainly falls under that umbrella in italics. Getting to grand marshal back in the day involved sinking copious amounts of time into battlegrounds in order to get a special title and some special gear. There was/is most definitely a carrot on a stick for PvP as well. In contrast, players have never been incentivized to explore much. Maybe you get a title nowadays, but it's not going to be anything cool like 'Dreadful Gladiator'. There's no special sword for exploring every sector of Azeroth. EDIT: Further thoughts > if they don't explicitly give you a token for having fun with your friends, saying that they "don't encourage fun" is pretty false. Why do you think it's false? It's implicit discouragement. In the thinly-veiled skinner box that is WoW, gear and tokens and titles are positive reinforcement. It's not a huge leap of logic to say that positive reinforcement tends to discourage behavior that doesn't lead to the reward.

tedks 11y ago
You don't need to be grand marshall to play PvP. When I played WoW you could just hang out at level 19 and keep playing early-level PvP as long as you wanted to. And the simple challenge that PvP is is always fun. Gear is one part of pvp, but it's fundamentally about beating the other player. I think you have a very cynical view of video games, and a very simplistic view of human psychology. The mere existence of a reward to do something doesn't make someone want to do anything else anything less -- it just might make someone want to do that thing more. I think the real problem comes from players, like you, who are literally unable to break the skinner box and are slavishly dedicated to extracting rewards from the system, using only the components of the system. Organic play and indeed, fun, is lost on you, because everything is reduced to work, the mechanical gaining of utility from authority figures. I blame overprotective parents and overscheduled youth and hope you one day feel better and can explore in MMOs without feeling discouraged.
- FlannelPancake 11y ago
  Lol, you're projecting something fierce here. Like: > Organic play and indeed, fun, is lost on you Really? That's the only explanation here? Not that I might be right about Wow? You're clearly upset about something else. Let me know when you're ready to have a real conversation.

tedks 11y ago

You don't need to be grand marshall to play PvP. When I played WoW you could just hang out at level 19 and keep playing early-level PvP as long as you wanted to. And the simple challenge that PvP is is always fun. Gear is one part of pvp, but it's fundamentally about beating the other player. I think you have a very cynical view of video games, and a very simplistic view of human psychology. The mere existence of a reward to do something doesn't make someone want to do anything else anything less -- it just might make someone want to do that thing more. I think the real problem comes from players, like you, who are literally unable to break the skinner box and are slavishly dedicated to extracting rewards from the system, using only the components of the system. Organic play and indeed, fun, is lost on you, because everything is reduced to work, the mechanical gaining of utility from authority figures. I blame overprotective parents and overscheduled youth and hope you one day feel better and can explore in MMOs without feeling discouraged.

FlannelPancake 11y ago
Lol, you're projecting something fierce here. Like: > Organic play and indeed, fun, is lost on you Really? That's the only explanation here? Not that I might be right about Wow? You're clearly upset about something else. Let me know when you're ready to have a real conversation.