4 ms·

Having played both WoW and Guild Wars 1 (not 2), I think Guild Wars 1 had the best solution of them all -- virtually all the content in the game is "max level"

Having played both WoW and Guild Wars 1 (not 2), I think Guild Wars 1 had the best solution of them all -- virtually all the content in the game is "max level" endgame content. They don't use the mechanic of more and better gear as a reward, so content doesn't get obsoleted by that.

Someone1234 12y ago
> They don't use the mechanic of more and better gear as a reward, so content doesn't get obsoleted by that. Interesting. What do they use instead? Most games use either gear or something akin to gear (like ships in Eve).
- jdjb 12y ago
  Guild Wars focused on your synergy with your party. The content got harder but your character stats didn't improve. You got a few new skills at your disposal (and eventually 1 elite skill) but mostly it was about understanding the game mechanics and how to work as a team better. This also meant that not every mission was necessarily more challenging than the last (in Factions there were some missions that were much harder right after leaving noob island than those deeper in the game play like in the Luxon/Kurzick areas).
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  They use skins. Max level armor/weapons are easily attainable by anyone in GW1 but if you want fancy looking stuff you're going to have to work for it. Makes the game a lot more skill based instead of grind based. Works very well for GW1 PvP.
- raker 12y ago
  Progression through Guild Wars rewards you with access to new skills. At any given time you can only bring 8 of those skills (and only 1 of them can be elite) with you at any given time. In addition, your character is limited to using skills from 2 classes. Many of the skills have specific interactions or triggers. Some skill specifically counter, defend against, or take advantage of other skills. Mobs have a set of skills (including some mob-only skills). The result is a logic puzzle that may have many solutions, left for the player to figure out. Players have fairly easy access to all skills and max-level equipment in the game. Skills are (almost) never made obsolete by other skills, so you could very well be using the exact same skill you learned early in the game while you fight the final boss. The challenge is finding the combination of skills and gear to best suit your needs at any given task. Comparable to collecting tools to add to your toolbox, a screwdriver can solve new problems for you, but it doesn't make the hammer any less useful.
  - digi_owl 12y ago
    I have taken to liken GW1 to a trading card game. You collect a bunch of cards (skills) and then build a deck (skill bar) from that.
Raphmedia 12y ago
GW1 was amazing for that. Vanilla had you spend some time to level up to 20 (max), and you felt like an adventurer by the time you maxed out. The next expansions however speeded up the leveling process. You start level 1, do some story mission that kickstart your adventurer into the real world and you are level 20 by the time you finish the prolog (i.e. you start on an island, and by the time you get to the main continent you are max level). Then, you can play where you want, with who you want. Only your gear and your skills matter. GW1 was an amazing game. As much as I like GW2, I wish they had kept more gameplay mechanics from the previous game.
- atom-morgan 12y ago
  > As much as I like GW2, I wish they had kept more gameplay mechanics from the previous game. This was my biggest surprise with GW2. All the videos leading up to its release had me really excited. The combat looked so much more engaging and interactive. In the end, I found myself preferring GW1. But to be fair, it may just be age. I find it harder to play games for extended periods of time than it was back when I was in high school.
  - digi_owl 12y ago
    The issue is in essence that GW2 has become overly streamlined for sake of PVP. It is a curse i see with all MMORPGs that provide some kind of "competitive" PVP. Sooner or later the PVE side suffers because of some "exploit" or "OP" combo that makes PVPers cry foul.
    - girvo 12y ago
      I agree. One of the things I love about PvE is the ability to feel powerful, properly powerful. Unfortunately, that can be at odds with competitive PvE, so it's unsurprising that the two goals can affect one another.
      - digi_owl 12y ago
        Indeed. A classic example is the concept of control. Back in the PVE only days, control was indispensable. Every time you aggroed a mob, other mobs nearby would also tag along. So controllers stepped in to subdue them while the DPS and tanks went to work on the main target. But while it is fun to keep a mob helpless for minutes in PVE, being at the receiving end of it in PVP is no fun at all. So these days control has pretty much gone byebye, or is heavily curtailed when applied to characters rather than mobs. Another thing is that in recent years games has gotten more "furious". Back in the day a fight good fight could drag on for minutes, with each side trading blows and coming up with strategies and counter strategies as the fight ebbed and flowed. This put brains ahead of player brawns or reflexes. But now it is all interrupts and twitch. Dodge this, block that, constantly moving out of fields and looking for "tells".
squeaky-clean 12y ago
I didn't like how GW1 did this at all. As they added expansions and more content, the game's population appeared to grow thinner and thinner, because the same number of players were spread out over more areas of the game. I really hope they avoid this with the new expansion for GW2 somehow. The "megaserver" system they use will probably help quite a bit.

Someone1234 12y ago

> They don't use the mechanic of more and better gear as a reward, so content doesn't get obsoleted by that. Interesting. What do they use instead? Most games use either gear or something akin to gear (like ships in Eve).

jdjb 12y ago
Guild Wars focused on your synergy with your party. The content got harder but your character stats didn't improve. You got a few new skills at your disposal (and eventually 1 elite skill) but mostly it was about understanding the game mechanics and how to work as a team better. This also meant that not every mission was necessarily more challenging than the last (in Factions there were some missions that were much harder right after leaving noob island than those deeper in the game play like in the Luxon/Kurzick areas).
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
Igglyboo 12y ago
They use skins. Max level armor/weapons are easily attainable by anyone in GW1 but if you want fancy looking stuff you're going to have to work for it. Makes the game a lot more skill based instead of grind based. Works very well for GW1 PvP.
raker 12y ago
Progression through Guild Wars rewards you with access to new skills. At any given time you can only bring 8 of those skills (and only 1 of them can be elite) with you at any given time. In addition, your character is limited to using skills from 2 classes. Many of the skills have specific interactions or triggers. Some skill specifically counter, defend against, or take advantage of other skills. Mobs have a set of skills (including some mob-only skills). The result is a logic puzzle that may have many solutions, left for the player to figure out. Players have fairly easy access to all skills and max-level equipment in the game. Skills are (almost) never made obsolete by other skills, so you could very well be using the exact same skill you learned early in the game while you fight the final boss. The challenge is finding the combination of skills and gear to best suit your needs at any given task. Comparable to collecting tools to add to your toolbox, a screwdriver can solve new problems for you, but it doesn't make the hammer any less useful.
- digi_owl 12y ago
  I have taken to liken GW1 to a trading card game. You collect a bunch of cards (skills) and then build a deck (skill bar) from that.

Raphmedia 12y ago

GW1 was amazing for that. Vanilla had you spend some time to level up to 20 (max), and you felt like an adventurer by the time you maxed out. The next expansions however speeded up the leveling process. You start level 1, do some story mission that kickstart your adventurer into the real world and you are level 20 by the time you finish the prolog (i.e. you start on an island, and by the time you get to the main continent you are max level). Then, you can play where you want, with who you want. Only your gear and your skills matter. GW1 was an amazing game. As much as I like GW2, I wish they had kept more gameplay mechanics from the previous game.

atom-morgan 12y ago
> As much as I like GW2, I wish they had kept more gameplay mechanics from the previous game. This was my biggest surprise with GW2. All the videos leading up to its release had me really excited. The combat looked so much more engaging and interactive. In the end, I found myself preferring GW1. But to be fair, it may just be age. I find it harder to play games for extended periods of time than it was back when I was in high school.
- digi_owl 12y ago
  The issue is in essence that GW2 has become overly streamlined for sake of PVP. It is a curse i see with all MMORPGs that provide some kind of "competitive" PVP. Sooner or later the PVE side suffers because of some "exploit" or "OP" combo that makes PVPers cry foul.
  - girvo 12y ago
    I agree. One of the things I love about PvE is the ability to feel powerful, properly powerful. Unfortunately, that can be at odds with competitive PvE, so it's unsurprising that the two goals can affect one another.
    - digi_owl 12y ago
      Indeed. A classic example is the concept of control. Back in the PVE only days, control was indispensable. Every time you aggroed a mob, other mobs nearby would also tag along. So controllers stepped in to subdue them while the DPS and tanks went to work on the main target. But while it is fun to keep a mob helpless for minutes in PVE, being at the receiving end of it in PVP is no fun at all. So these days control has pretty much gone byebye, or is heavily curtailed when applied to characters rather than mobs. Another thing is that in recent years games has gotten more "furious". Back in the day a fight good fight could drag on for minutes, with each side trading blows and coming up with strategies and counter strategies as the fight ebbed and flowed. This put brains ahead of player brawns or reflexes. But now it is all interrupts and twitch. Dodge this, block that, constantly moving out of fields and looking for "tells".

squeaky-clean 12y ago

I didn't like how GW1 did this at all. As they added expansions and more content, the game's population appeared to grow thinner and thinner, because the same number of players were spread out over more areas of the game. I really hope they avoid this with the new expansion for GW2 somehow. The "megaserver" system they use will probably help quite a bit.