4 ms·

I'm going to offer an anecdote that isn't technical. Like it or not, but there is a definite stigma associated towards working on Windows. Developers on HN are

by EnderMB 12y ago

I'm going to offer an anecdote that isn't technical. Like it or not, but there is a definite stigma associated towards working on Windows. Developers on HN are surprisingly open-minded towards developing on Windows, but in the real world you'll find a lot of developers that look down on those that choose Windows as their development platform. I've met a range of devs, from those working at startups, to people who work at Google, and many of them have been extremely dismissive of not just .NET, but those that work on Windows. I've worked at a startup using ASP.NET, but I reckon many C# devs would probably rate their chances of getting a job at a big tech company to be slim and none because they favour .NET. I spoke to some ex-Googlers a while back at an event, and I asked about the Google interview process. They asked me what language I coded in, and on hearing that my main language was C# they were less than favourable about my chances. It's a shame really, because I'd quite like to work somewhere like Google, but I wouldn't want to have to hide the fact that my strongest language by far is C#. In my mind, bringing .NET to Mac and Linux will do something that we rarely see in the development world. The Windows world will be bringing something valuable to the Linux world. The best part about this for me isn't being able to use .NET on an OS that I'd love to learn more about, but not having that niggling doubt in my head about my choice of language/framework, and I reckon a lot of .NET developers, especially younger ones will feel exactly the same.

ghuntley 12y ago
Exactly. I could not have said it better myself, matches my experiences as well.
stuaxo 12y ago
There are basic some things that make using open tools not work very well... the following 3 seem to bubble up and stop making lots of unix dev + python tools not work: No fork No ansi in terminal Seperate Select for files and Sockets on Windows.. Fix those and I bet loads of the open source tools would start working, making Windows much more attractive to X platform devs.
- EnderMB 12y ago
  In my eyes the problem is no longer technical, but cultural. There are a million things Microsoft could do to please developers on other platforms, but I just think that there's no changing some peoples minds. When people think of .NET developers, they think of a middle-aged man that works for a big company writing corporate code, and this is not the kind of developer that start-ups or companies like Google want in their ranks. The moves that Microsoft are making will help validate those .NET developers that enjoy working on the framework AND want to feel like a part of the larger developer community. Technically, things will continue to improve under this direction, but what I really hope is that the per-conceived notions about .NET developers are laid to rest.
- elektronjunge 12y ago
  > Seperate Select for files and Sockets on Windows.. And linux has the epoll/posix aio split for sockets and files.
kstrauser 12y ago
I think the perception is that you learn Windows in your university business school's IT classes and C/Python/Unix/etc. in the computer science department. It goes beyond "eww a Microsoft language" and into "just another b-school pseudoprogrammer who's going to write awful code I'll have to maintain forever". And up until very recently, choosing an MS stack meant voluntarily locking yourself into a single-vendor platform, something that horrifies most Unix hackers. C# isn't alone in this; notice that approximately 0% of F/OSS code in a typical Linux distro is in Objective-C. I don't claim that's an accurate perception, but I've heard quite a few comments to that effect from this side of the aisle.
ohitsdom 12y ago
> "Developers on HN are surprisingly open-minded towards developing on Windows" OT, but I have not found this to be the case. Most comments on HN that mention developing on Windows are usually followed up with "Windows? Ugh", "OP must not have a choice", and other comments about how rough Windows development is. Back on topic, as a C#/.NET developer I completely agree with your points.
tracker1 12y ago
Imagine a decade ago telling people your favorite language was JavaScript... I've been a fan since long before "The Good Parts" was published, and still am. There are still a lot of people that are completely dismissive of it.

by EnderMB 12y ago

ghuntley 12y ago

Exactly. I could not have said it better myself, matches my experiences as well.

stuaxo 12y ago

There are basic some things that make using open tools not work very well... the following 3 seem to bubble up and stop making lots of unix dev + python tools not work: No fork No ansi in terminal Seperate Select for files and Sockets on Windows.. Fix those and I bet loads of the open source tools would start working, making Windows much more attractive to X platform devs.

EnderMB 12y ago
In my eyes the problem is no longer technical, but cultural. There are a million things Microsoft could do to please developers on other platforms, but I just think that there's no changing some peoples minds. When people think of .NET developers, they think of a middle-aged man that works for a big company writing corporate code, and this is not the kind of developer that start-ups or companies like Google want in their ranks. The moves that Microsoft are making will help validate those .NET developers that enjoy working on the framework AND want to feel like a part of the larger developer community. Technically, things will continue to improve under this direction, but what I really hope is that the per-conceived notions about .NET developers are laid to rest.
elektronjunge 12y ago
> Seperate Select for files and Sockets on Windows.. And linux has the epoll/posix aio split for sockets and files.

kstrauser 12y ago

I think the perception is that you learn Windows in your university business school's IT classes and C/Python/Unix/etc. in the computer science department. It goes beyond "eww a Microsoft language" and into "just another b-school pseudoprogrammer who's going to write awful code I'll have to maintain forever". And up until very recently, choosing an MS stack meant voluntarily locking yourself into a single-vendor platform, something that horrifies most Unix hackers. C# isn't alone in this; notice that approximately 0% of F/OSS code in a typical Linux distro is in Objective-C. I don't claim that's an accurate perception, but I've heard quite a few comments to that effect from this side of the aisle.

ohitsdom 12y ago

> "Developers on HN are surprisingly open-minded towards developing on Windows" OT, but I have not found this to be the case. Most comments on HN that mention developing on Windows are usually followed up with "Windows? Ugh", "OP must not have a choice", and other comments about how rough Windows development is. Back on topic, as a C#/.NET developer I completely agree with your points.

tracker1 12y ago

Imagine a decade ago telling people your favorite language was JavaScript... I've been a fan since long before "The Good Parts" was published, and still am. There are still a lot of people that are completely dismissive of it.