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Electric scooters are becoming very popular here in Amsterdam, and I really hope this gets more of the gas-powered scooters off the market. Scooters here are m

by furyg3 12y ago

Electric scooters are becoming very popular here in Amsterdam, and I really hope this gets more of the gas-powered scooters off the market. Scooters here are mostly either used by delivery boys or as a luxury item (since the bike lanes are so good). There is a decent amount of hostility towards scooters from bikers since (right now) they often share the same lanes; scooter riders are impatient, honk-y, often drive too fast and cause accidents, and blast those they are passing with smog. There's a movement to get them off the bike lanes and into traffic. Scooters emit less CO2 per distance traveled than cars (and obviously much less than bike riders!) but often much more smog causing pollutants that affect air quality. Given that there is a really big push to improve air quality in European city centers, electric scooters can make a big difference. Plus gas-powered scooters are noisy as all hell, especially during peak food delivery hours (since all delivery boys love zooming around on their toys making as much noise as possible). I'm starting to see a lot of delivery companies switching to electric scooters, and I'm hoping that this trend either continues or that the government simply mandates these for commercial operations within the city.

teekert 12y ago
The scooters should be on the (car) road unless otherwise indicated in nl. The noise can of course also be a nice indicator for a fast scooter approaching. A Prius sneaking up on you from behind can be quite a shock sometimes.
- barrkel 12y ago
  AFAIK 125+cc scooters should be on the road, but mopeds may be in bike lanes (although I believe Amsterdam may have recently (June 2014) gotten permission to exclude mopeds from cycle lanes specifically in the city). Mopeds are at most 49cc and limited to 50kph, and may or may not be in a scooter shape. There's a continuum between antique heavy-framed bicycles, complete with pedals, as well as a motor that may or may not be running, through to scooter-style mopeds.
- IkmoIkmo 12y ago
  Nah, scooter is a wide ranging term. More specifically we have snorscooters, bromscooters, and motorscooters. The motorscooter (actual term that exists, though not popular) is just a regular motorcycle. The snorscooter is limited to 25 km/h, but is manufactured generally at 30, up to 45 km/h with artificial limitations on the engine which can be turned off. (guess what happens). And these are allowed on bicycle paths. Only the bromscooter and motorscooter, must go on the road. So yeah cyclists do end up sharing their lanes with vehicles going up to 45, while a bike in the city usually goes around 15. Particularly annoying is cycling with a friend, and having to cycle in front of each other instead of side by side every 30 seconds because something twice as fast wants to pass you by. I quite like the electric scooters in general as a consumer, a friend of mine has one and I've tried it a few times and it's great. But generally I'm not a fan of the concept. We've come a very long way here with cycling, spending 20 minutes going to your work, 20 minutes back, 10 to the grocery store and 10 to a cafe in the evening, that's pretty much the daily required exercise you want every human being to have. It's plays a huge, mostly unintentional, part in our health. It's very safe, as we have lightweight, nimble, 15 km/h vehicles on dedicated lanes. And it gives rise to a different form of city planning, one where life is designed around a 30 minute cycling distance radius, as opposed to what I experienced in the US (living & work & entertainment are hugely separated. You have to do groceries by car, and go to work by car.) And lastly, of course, the environmental factors of not just running motorised vehicles (whether electric or fossil fuels), but also the manufacturing of them. So while I'd love to see motors go electric, particularly cars, I'm at the same time concerned that the scooter versus the bicycle will become more popular! :)
  - IanCal 12y ago
    > More specifically we have snorscooters, bromscooters ... Not particularly on-topic but I couldn't help read this in the excited voice of Gene Wilder. "The snorscooters drive like snorscooters!" "Who ever heard of a snorscooter?" "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." To be a little more helpful, if like me you don't know what these are, it seems the bromscooter is the same as a snorscooter but without the 25km/h speed limit (and are required to be on the roads with the driver wearing a helmet). You may recognise these as just "scooters" in your own country or "mopeds". http://www.scooterprijs.nl/Snorscooter.jpg http://www.scooterprijs.nl/Snorscooter.jpg
ScottBurson 12y ago
> Scooters emit less CO2 per distance traveled than cars (and obviously much less than bike riders!) I don't have time to dig up the numbers right now, but I think your "obvious" claim is probably quite badly mistaken. The faster you go, the more energy required per mile, because the power required to overcome air resistance is cubic in velocity. Muscles also have higher thermodynamic efficiency than a gas motor.
- furyg3 12y ago
  Yeah I mistyped that. I meant to say that bike riders emit much less CO2 than both cars and scooters.

by furyg3 12y ago

teekert 12y ago

The scooters should be on the (car) road unless otherwise indicated in nl. The noise can of course also be a nice indicator for a fast scooter approaching. A Prius sneaking up on you from behind can be quite a shock sometimes.

barrkel 12y ago
AFAIK 125+cc scooters should be on the road, but mopeds may be in bike lanes (although I believe Amsterdam may have recently (June 2014) gotten permission to exclude mopeds from cycle lanes specifically in the city). Mopeds are at most 49cc and limited to 50kph, and may or may not be in a scooter shape. There's a continuum between antique heavy-framed bicycles, complete with pedals, as well as a motor that may or may not be running, through to scooter-style mopeds.
IkmoIkmo 12y ago
Nah, scooter is a wide ranging term. More specifically we have snorscooters, bromscooters, and motorscooters. The motorscooter (actual term that exists, though not popular) is just a regular motorcycle. The snorscooter is limited to 25 km/h, but is manufactured generally at 30, up to 45 km/h with artificial limitations on the engine which can be turned off. (guess what happens). And these are allowed on bicycle paths. Only the bromscooter and motorscooter, must go on the road. So yeah cyclists do end up sharing their lanes with vehicles going up to 45, while a bike in the city usually goes around 15. Particularly annoying is cycling with a friend, and having to cycle in front of each other instead of side by side every 30 seconds because something twice as fast wants to pass you by. I quite like the electric scooters in general as a consumer, a friend of mine has one and I've tried it a few times and it's great. But generally I'm not a fan of the concept. We've come a very long way here with cycling, spending 20 minutes going to your work, 20 minutes back, 10 to the grocery store and 10 to a cafe in the evening, that's pretty much the daily required exercise you want every human being to have. It's plays a huge, mostly unintentional, part in our health. It's very safe, as we have lightweight, nimble, 15 km/h vehicles on dedicated lanes. And it gives rise to a different form of city planning, one where life is designed around a 30 minute cycling distance radius, as opposed to what I experienced in the US (living & work & entertainment are hugely separated. You have to do groceries by car, and go to work by car.) And lastly, of course, the environmental factors of not just running motorised vehicles (whether electric or fossil fuels), but also the manufacturing of them. So while I'd love to see motors go electric, particularly cars, I'm at the same time concerned that the scooter versus the bicycle will become more popular! :)
- IanCal 12y ago
  > More specifically we have snorscooters, bromscooters ... Not particularly on-topic but I couldn't help read this in the excited voice of Gene Wilder. "The snorscooters drive like snorscooters!" "Who ever heard of a snorscooter?" "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." To be a little more helpful, if like me you don't know what these are, it seems the bromscooter is the same as a snorscooter but without the 25km/h speed limit (and are required to be on the roads with the driver wearing a helmet). You may recognise these as just "scooters" in your own country or "mopeds". http://www.scooterprijs.nl/Snorscooter.jpg http://www.scooterprijs.nl/Snorscooter.jpg

ScottBurson 12y ago

> Scooters emit less CO2 per distance traveled than cars (and obviously much less than bike riders!) I don't have time to dig up the numbers right now, but I think your "obvious" claim is probably quite badly mistaken. The faster you go, the more energy required per mile, because the power required to overcome air resistance is cubic in velocity. Muscles also have higher thermodynamic efficiency than a gas motor.

furyg3 12y ago
Yeah I mistyped that. I meant to say that bike riders emit much less CO2 than both cars and scooters.