5 ms·

Hey all, MS PR guy here (yes I know, cue* the cabbage throwing). Just wanted to let you know we made a subreddit, and MS will answer some questions around Build

Hey all, MS PR guy here (yes I know, cue* the cabbage throwing). Just wanted to let you know we made a subreddit, and MS will answer some questions around Build 2015 announcements next week (.NET, Azure etc). Feel free to post Qs there if you'd like: http://www.reddit.com/r/Microsoft_Build/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Microsoft_Build/ edit: cue

danieldk 11y ago
I still remember Rotor for FreeBSD[1]. Thanks for doing things for real this time! I am looking forward to the effect this will have on F# adoption. [1] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx
scrollaway 11y ago
I just wanted to let you know, I think you guys are absolutely awesome. I used to be a huge MS hater, but you have really stepped up your game lately. Way to go.
cyphax 11y ago
Cabbage? How about a lot of praise instead? Because that's what I'd throw at you guys for doing what you're doing with .NET. I'm a .NET programmer by day, and Linux-fan (and user) by night, and I honestly can't wait until I can run an asp.net based mvc website on my Linux-based server (running Apache; I know it's not impossible now but it's not quite fully there yet, or supported by MS), and thanks to your efforts, that now feels like something that's maybe actually going to happen the way I hope it will. So huge thanks from me!
- sarciszewski 11y ago
  Yes, as a GNU/Linux user who dabbled with .NET almost a decade ago, I approve of this change in direction towards open source.
- giancarlostoro 11y ago
  The only thing missing for the non-emacs only users is Visual Studio for Linux... Even if it's not open source... Cue cabbage from Stallman and GNU-Onlyists.
wmeints 11y ago
No cabbage for you mister. Great news, finally I can run ASP.NET apps on linux and in docker containers. Makes my life as a mac user a lot easier!
ghuntley 11y ago
@jrdnmadrid no cabbages, just a standing ovation: Compare MSFT from http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/pipermail/ozdotnet/2014-May/016104.html http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/pipermail/ozdotnet/2014-May/01... to only months later https://www.mail-archive.com/ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com/msg11190.html https://www.mail-archive.com/ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com/msg11190....
thrownaway122 11y ago
No cabbage here either. The key is this part of the post: > MS PR guy here Keep up the good work re .NET.
- rattray 11y ago
  Why was this downvoted?
  - maskedinvader 11y ago
    I was wondering the same. Is asking why anything was downvoted also to be downvoted ? will my comment also be downvoted for asking why "asking why the parent comment was downvoted" ? edit: grammar
    - dang 11y ago
      > Is asking why anything was downvoted also to be downvoted? Yes, because it breaks the HN guidelines: Resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. Everyone commenting here needs to absorb this rule and develop the small amount of discipline it takes to just not do it. Optimize for signal/noise ratio, because that's what serves intellectual curiosity (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
      - rattray 11y ago
        Ah, thanks for posting that here... I would have assumed that guideline to have been directed towards people asking why they themselves were downvoted. That is, I didn't "comment about being downloaded". Perhaps the guideline could be clarified? (Hopefully needless to say, I don't mean to quibble about 2 karma points, but do want to help improve HN). Personally, I've felt a great uncertainty whether downvotes are intended to be used for "I disagree with you" or "your comment isn't what we accept here at HN". I've always assumed the latter but think I heard something from you/PG indicating the former recently. There isn't anything about it in the guidelines. I don't expect a reply from you here (not sure it would do much good, other than just for me) but if you ask around and others have the same lack of clarity, it might be worth writing on. Lastly, thanks a lot for all the great work you've done for HN in the past several months! (longer?)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
_pmf_ 11y ago
> yes I know, cue* the cabbage throwing I think MS is in a state where pity is more appropriate. Tell your boss that it's not very clever for a vendor who only survives due to legacy LoB application that maybe requiring this monstrous process [0] to develop a LoB application with a Metro UI elevated privileges is not quite what Ballmer had in mind when doing his funny monkey dance. I was excited to begin developing for Metro before finding myself in this cesspit. [0] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/dn630195.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/dn6301... ("Brokered Windows Runtime Components for side-loaded Windows Store apps")
anon3_ 11y ago
piles on Thank you for helping bring CLR to FreeBSD. https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/pull/782/files#diff-ebcfa0c24bdc162d87b744d79d0c0989R1 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/pull/782/files#diff-ebcfa0... That's clean, documented code man.
lostit2xx 11y ago
Cabbage is worth more than I care to throw at you. I have better garbage. Stay off my lawn.
UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
I'm surprised people on that sub are asking for POSIX support back. Windows had it, nobody used it, because most modern software built for OSs like Linux and BSD aren't POSIX compliant themselves. Even porting from Linux to BSD is some work, and they're quite similar in userland. Porting from Linux to "Windows Services for UNIX" (POSIX layer) seems like it is far more work, and if you're going to go that far why not just produce a native Windows binary without the dependencies?
- rbanffy 11y ago
  Developers who use Windows seem to be picking up interest in developing for Linux and other Unixes (which makes a lot of sense). The POSIX layer can be useful to make Windows more Unix-y. When working from Windows, however, I've always been very happy with Cygwin and regard it as an essential add-on to any Windows install. I really don't care whether Windows has built-in support for a Unix-like environment, as long as I can compile and run my programs.
jptman 11y ago
As you wish, here's some Coleslaw: Awesome job Microsoft! I'm very curious to see if the larger industry embraces .Net on Linux / FreeBSD as one of the core languages. At some of the big tech companies, Java and C++ are still king, partly because of their OSS echosystem. Would be great to see C#, F# up there with them.
- _yosefk 11y ago
  Was "echosystem" a typo? (Regardless, a brilliant portmanteau of "echo chamber" and "ecosystem" IMO)
loudmax 11y ago
Can you all get to work on Office compatibility next? I don't care about .NET/CLR either way, but I still get sent documents in proprietary MS formats and they're still a major pain. I'd love some kind of import/export library from open formats into MS proprietary stuff.
- tracker1 11y ago
  I know you're being modded into oblivion and it's more likely for tone than anything else. For the most part, I haven't had much trouble using LibreOffice against newer ms .(doc|xsl|...)x documents, which is much closer to open than anything from ms-office before it. The oddities tend to be the use of fonts that aren't embedded or the use of other embedded content that will never work outside of a windows context. The simpler the document, the less trouble though. Are you actually having significant problems in your day to day use, or was this just trolling? All of that said, I'm actually very happy to see MS opening up .Net/CLR because there is a lot of code that runs under it, and being able to port and reuse that in a linux environment. Even in my current project creating a replacement for a .Net application in node/iojs, there's a small service I'll be using that will run with mono because re-creating the piece in question would be problematic, though that piece will enable a live data migration (encrypted data) to something that won't need the .Net code in question.
  - loudmax 11y ago
    In the work I do, I still have to deal with older .xls and .doc formats. Agreed that LibreOffice and open source libraries do indeed work much better with newer MS *x documents. It's pretty far from 100% though. These semi-open formats are a hassle for me, and they're a major hurdle for any organization trying to build a business built on parsing MS Office files on an open source platform. As far as MS opening up, I won't deny that they are moving in the right direction, but as far as I'm concerned there's still a ways to go. Get complete compatibility for Office file formats, and I'll be much more sympathetic.
snuxoll 11y ago
I really appreciate the effort the .NET Core team has been putting in, along with the ASP.NET team. We are a heavy .NET shop, but I would love to not be tied to a specific OS platform because of our application framework choices (managing a fleet of Linux boxes is much easier with tools like Puppet/Chef, Powershell DSC is getting the Windows world closer but there's not a lot of support behind it yet - at least on my *nix boxes my configuration is just a bunch of text files).
learningram 11y ago
You like cabbages?
NicoJuicy 11y ago
Why cabbage, MS is doing great these days :) - glad to see them going Open Source with a lot of stuff! I saw you registered 26 days ago. How's this PR different with how you did it before ( just wondering - i suppose it's a lot of action - reaction related - direct) ?

danieldk 11y ago

I still remember Rotor for FreeBSD[1]. Thanks for doing things for real this time! I am looking forward to the effect this will have on F# adoption. [1] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx

scrollaway 11y ago

I just wanted to let you know, I think you guys are absolutely awesome. I used to be a huge MS hater, but you have really stepped up your game lately. Way to go.

cyphax 11y ago

Cabbage? How about a lot of praise instead? Because that's what I'd throw at you guys for doing what you're doing with .NET. I'm a .NET programmer by day, and Linux-fan (and user) by night, and I honestly can't wait until I can run an asp.net based mvc website on my Linux-based server (running Apache; I know it's not impossible now but it's not quite fully there yet, or supported by MS), and thanks to your efforts, that now feels like something that's maybe actually going to happen the way I hope it will. So huge thanks from me!

sarciszewski 11y ago
Yes, as a GNU/Linux user who dabbled with .NET almost a decade ago, I approve of this change in direction towards open source.
giancarlostoro 11y ago
The only thing missing for the non-emacs only users is Visual Studio for Linux... Even if it's not open source... Cue cabbage from Stallman and GNU-Onlyists.

wmeints 11y ago

No cabbage for you mister. Great news, finally I can run ASP.NET apps on linux and in docker containers. Makes my life as a mac user a lot easier!

ghuntley 11y ago

@jrdnmadrid no cabbages, just a standing ovation: Compare MSFT from http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/pipermail/ozdotnet/2014-May/016104.html http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/pipermail/ozdotnet/2014-May/01... to only months later https://www.mail-archive.com/ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com/msg11190.html https://www.mail-archive.com/ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com/msg11190....

thrownaway122 11y ago

No cabbage here either. The key is this part of the post: > MS PR guy here Keep up the good work re .NET.

rattray 11y ago
Why was this downvoted?
- maskedinvader 11y ago
  I was wondering the same. Is asking why anything was downvoted also to be downvoted ? will my comment also be downvoted for asking why "asking why the parent comment was downvoted" ? edit: grammar
  - dang 11y ago
    > Is asking why anything was downvoted also to be downvoted? Yes, because it breaks the HN guidelines: Resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. Everyone commenting here needs to absorb this rule and develop the small amount of discipline it takes to just not do it. Optimize for signal/noise ratio, because that's what serves intellectual curiosity (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
    - rattray 11y ago
      Ah, thanks for posting that here... I would have assumed that guideline to have been directed towards people asking why they themselves were downvoted. That is, I didn't "comment about being downloaded". Perhaps the guideline could be clarified? (Hopefully needless to say, I don't mean to quibble about 2 karma points, but do want to help improve HN). Personally, I've felt a great uncertainty whether downvotes are intended to be used for "I disagree with you" or "your comment isn't what we accept here at HN". I've always assumed the latter but think I heard something from you/PG indicating the former recently. There isn't anything about it in the guidelines. I don't expect a reply from you here (not sure it would do much good, other than just for me) but if you ask around and others have the same lack of clarity, it might be worth writing on. Lastly, thanks a lot for all the great work you've done for HN in the past several months! (longer?)

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

_pmf_ 11y ago

> yes I know, cue* the cabbage throwing I think MS is in a state where pity is more appropriate. Tell your boss that it's not very clever for a vendor who only survives due to legacy LoB application that maybe requiring this monstrous process [0] to develop a LoB application with a Metro UI elevated privileges is not quite what Ballmer had in mind when doing his funny monkey dance. I was excited to begin developing for Metro before finding myself in this cesspit. [0] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/dn630195.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/dn6301... ("Brokered Windows Runtime Components for side-loaded Windows Store apps")

anon3_ 11y ago

piles on Thank you for helping bring CLR to FreeBSD. https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/pull/782/files#diff-ebcfa0c24bdc162d87b744d79d0c0989R1 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/pull/782/files#diff-ebcfa0... That's clean, documented code man.

lostit2xx 11y ago

Cabbage is worth more than I care to throw at you. I have better garbage. Stay off my lawn.

UnoriginalGuy 11y ago

I'm surprised people on that sub are asking for POSIX support back. Windows had it, nobody used it, because most modern software built for OSs like Linux and BSD aren't POSIX compliant themselves. Even porting from Linux to BSD is some work, and they're quite similar in userland. Porting from Linux to "Windows Services for UNIX" (POSIX layer) seems like it is far more work, and if you're going to go that far why not just produce a native Windows binary without the dependencies?

rbanffy 11y ago
Developers who use Windows seem to be picking up interest in developing for Linux and other Unixes (which makes a lot of sense). The POSIX layer can be useful to make Windows more Unix-y. When working from Windows, however, I've always been very happy with Cygwin and regard it as an essential add-on to any Windows install. I really don't care whether Windows has built-in support for a Unix-like environment, as long as I can compile and run my programs.

jptman 11y ago

As you wish, here's some Coleslaw: Awesome job Microsoft! I'm very curious to see if the larger industry embraces .Net on Linux / FreeBSD as one of the core languages. At some of the big tech companies, Java and C++ are still king, partly because of their OSS echosystem. Would be great to see C#, F# up there with them.

_yosefk 11y ago
Was "echosystem" a typo? (Regardless, a brilliant portmanteau of "echo chamber" and "ecosystem" IMO)

loudmax 11y ago

Can you all get to work on Office compatibility next? I don't care about .NET/CLR either way, but I still get sent documents in proprietary MS formats and they're still a major pain. I'd love some kind of import/export library from open formats into MS proprietary stuff.

tracker1 11y ago
I know you're being modded into oblivion and it's more likely for tone than anything else. For the most part, I haven't had much trouble using LibreOffice against newer ms .(doc|xsl|...)x documents, which is much closer to open than anything from ms-office before it. The oddities tend to be the use of fonts that aren't embedded or the use of other embedded content that will never work outside of a windows context. The simpler the document, the less trouble though. Are you actually having significant problems in your day to day use, or was this just trolling? All of that said, I'm actually very happy to see MS opening up .Net/CLR because there is a lot of code that runs under it, and being able to port and reuse that in a linux environment. Even in my current project creating a replacement for a .Net application in node/iojs, there's a small service I'll be using that will run with mono because re-creating the piece in question would be problematic, though that piece will enable a live data migration (encrypted data) to something that won't need the .Net code in question.
- loudmax 11y ago
  In the work I do, I still have to deal with older .xls and .doc formats. Agreed that LibreOffice and open source libraries do indeed work much better with newer MS *x documents. It's pretty far from 100% though. These semi-open formats are a hassle for me, and they're a major hurdle for any organization trying to build a business built on parsing MS Office files on an open source platform. As far as MS opening up, I won't deny that they are moving in the right direction, but as far as I'm concerned there's still a ways to go. Get complete compatibility for Office file formats, and I'll be much more sympathetic.

snuxoll 11y ago

I really appreciate the effort the .NET Core team has been putting in, along with the ASP.NET team. We are a heavy .NET shop, but I would love to not be tied to a specific OS platform because of our application framework choices (managing a fleet of Linux boxes is much easier with tools like Puppet/Chef, Powershell DSC is getting the Windows world closer but there's not a lot of support behind it yet - at least on my *nix boxes my configuration is just a bunch of text files).

learningram 11y ago

You like cabbages?

NicoJuicy 11y ago

Why cabbage, MS is doing great these days :) - glad to see them going Open Source with a lot of stuff! I saw you registered 26 days ago. How's this PR different with how you did it before ( just wondering - i suppose it's a lot of action - reaction related - direct) ?