6 ms·

Toddlers prepare for their first big interview

34 points by schrofer 11y ago

1971genocide 11y ago
YC16: FetusImplants.io - we are hiring ! On a more serious note. Things like this is great if done correctly. If an professional industry can be grown around child care, I think its better than having parents do infinite amount of harm to their kids. However its almost ridiculous that society is heading that way. One of the foundation of society is the relationship between parents and their kids. That relationship develops in early childhood. I think parents in hong kong are taking life way too seriously - what are you gaining out of it ? Does it matter that your city is twice as performant as new-york or shanghai. My grandmother still lives by global standards below the global proverty line by income. And she has the most chilled life I have seen. Ofcourse if your country is ravaged by malaria or violence then there is something that needs to be done. Humans are not machines - we have computers now for that. Human creativity pays itself and creativity comes from boredom and self learing. Also being from a culture similar to hong- kong. these types of things instil a sense of "FUCK YOU IF YOU FAIL!" This is very counterproductive attitude to have if you expect to be part of the social chain of invention from galileo and newton.
- stdbrouw 11y ago
  > If an professional industry can be grown around child care, I think its better than having parents do infinite amount of harm to their kids. We know that if you drink lots of alcohol while pregnant, you're going to harm your child. We also know that if you are abusive towards your children, they might end up with all sorts of psychological trauma. But beyond that? Different parenting strategies probably have an effect on a kid's emotional and intellectual development, but the jury is still out on exactly how much of an effect and exactly what, then, the best parenting strategy is. So, doing an "infinite amount of harm" to your kids because you're somehow not a professional at raising kids? I don't think that's even possible. -- but anyway, I very much agree with the main point of your comment; society seems to increasingly want to turn people into robots.
  - vgabios 11y ago
    Parents have to do a cost/benefit estimate and ask themselves rhetorically: are they social climbing through the kids "keeping up with the Jones'" and investing (or wasting) a large fraction of disposable income creating spoiled kids or creating lasting benefit? Could also be helicopter parenting meets academic overpressure, however there may be some value if subsequent schools look at, or are biased by, pedigree. That monoculture of demonstrated rarity which is a function of self-reinforcing exclusivity, i.e., just look at ASW. The likelihood of schools and other communal gatherings devolve into picky cliques is no surprise: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-social/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-...
  - rayiner 11y ago
    Drinking during pregnancy is actually a good microcosm of parenting as a whole. The effect of light to moderate drinking during pregnancy on child IQ and attention is pretty much nonexistent: http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/key-findings-alcohol-use.html http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/key-findings-alcohol-use.html. And even among alcoholics, the probability of FAS is around 5%. Even pre-natal cocaine exposure isn't all its cracked up to be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_cocaine_exposure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_cocaine_exposure. Kids are surprisingly resilient, and the weight of the scientific evidence we have suggests that once confounding factors like socioeconomic status are accounted for, parenting choices don't have a large impact on at least the objectively measurable aspects of outcomes (e.g. IQ, test scores, attention span).
    - gdubs 11y ago
      I remember hearing a story of a mom flying on a French airline. They were liberal with the wine, but freaked out when she wanted a raw salad. Every culture is different when it comes to parenting :)
    - aidenn0 11y ago
      Early neglect and abuse have significant impacts on kids. Prenatal exposure to heroin is pretty gnarly too. It's actually surprising how horrible the effects of neglect (especially during the first 24 months) is on kids. You're probably worse off as a kid if your mother didn't do drugs during pregnancy, but then is too high to consistently take care of you for the next two years. [edit] Also if your parent does anything to put you in the foster care system in the first 3 years of your life; the system tends to move kids around a lot, and sudden changes to the primary caregiver between 6 months and 3 years significantly increases the risk for attachment disorders.
- sz4kerto 11y ago
  > On a more serious note. Things like this is great if done correctly. No, it's not great. Children should play, first and foremost. And not just when they're 2.5 -- even when they are 10. > f an professional industry can be grown around child care, I think its better than having parents do infinite amount of harm to their kids. In general, parents don't do infinite harm. They tend to love their kids -- a professional child carer won't. What's wrong with you, people?
ElijahLynn 11y ago
This is horrible. Kids shouldn't be stressed out like this in their early years/ Teach them how to be creative and let them play. We just went through the Princeton Waldorf school 'interview' process and guess what it was. Our 2.5 year old son playing with a wooden tow truck on the floor and slightly interacting with a 3 year old girl doing roughly the same with some other toys. The world needs creative engineers in all industries who can come up with original ideas not ones who are good at repeating and rote memorization, although those are fantastic secondary skills.
- e40 11y ago
  We just went through the Princeton Waldorf school 'interview' process and guess what it was. Our 2.5 year old son playing with a wooden tow truck on the floor and slightly interacting with a 3 year old girl doing roughly the same with some other toys. That implies that there was a wrong way to play and interact. Are they only taking good kids, or something?
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Doesn't sound very stressful for the child. And I suppose they were looking for behavior disorders etc. There sure IS a wrong way for a toddler to interact! Lots of behaviors are difficult to manage in a crowded classroom.
  - ElijahLynn 11y ago
    I really don't know if they were looking for anything particular or what they were looking for if they were. Maybe they were actually looking at us, not the kid. We just asked them a lot of questions.
  - emidln 11y ago
    Guessing that the wrong way involves throwing the wooden tow truck at the 3 year old girl.
blinkingled 11y ago
Humans making life miserable for other humans - kids edition.
- sanmon3186 11y ago
  Indian edition for little older kids http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/even-class-6-students-prepare-for-iit/article1-967199.aspx http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/even-class-6-students...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Red_Tarsius 11y ago
> "At one tuition company, the Hong Kong Young Talents Association (HKYTA), a series of 12 training sessions costs HK$4,480 ($580; £390) - that's nearly a quarter of the median monthly household income." Sometimes I think that the Asian obsession with school curriculum was designed make money out of fear. Schools' focus should be learning itself. Any form of extrinsic reward – praises, grades, smileys – adds up to nullify the learning experience. imho we're raising a generation of selfish individuals. We're raising people who won't do anything without a solid structure and reward system to motivate them. Free play is what builds children's self-reliance and independence.
- gdubs 11y ago
  Structure can be very important to building self-esteem and confidence in a child. Many think it's critical to providing self-reliance and independence, perhaps counterintuitively. I'm not saying free play is unimportant. But structure provides routines that make kids feel confident. That the world isn't a completely chaotic place. It helps them learn about valuable skills like delayed gratification. Etc.
rquantz 11y ago
NYC toddlers go through the same thing, and I hear parents here complaining about getting their kids into a good kindergarten all the time. There is a funnel from the best kindergartens to the best private schools, to the Ivy League schools, to the top law firms and medical schools, and for some of very best schools, the rate of acceptance into Ivy League schools is so high that by getting your kid into the right kindergarten they are essentially set for life. It is absolute madness that an interview at the age of four could be so determinative of one's entire life. Yet another way that privilege tends to compound.
- Red_Tarsius 11y ago
  imho it's not privilege, but wishful thinking: the snake oil of modern education.
  - Zikes 11y ago
    It's not the education that matters, it's the relationships and prestige.
- ovulator 11y ago
  Here is the thing, the kid that makes it into this kindergarten does so because their parent is both connected and wealthy no? That means that the rejects are also connected and wealthy, yes? Those rejects then mix in with the plebs at a normal school. That normal school has a much lower acceptance rate into the Ivys, but who from those schools is making it in. Probably the wealthy and connected rejects. So did the elite kindergarten matter at all? This of course is all conjecture, and I would love to see actual data on the subject.
- mrev19 11y ago
  A person who follows a path laid out for them by others from the age of four without veering will encounter challenges later in life involving self-direction and identity. 'Set for life' is a dangerous delusion.
  - Zikes 11y ago

34 points by schrofer 11y ago

1971genocide 11y ago

YC16: FetusImplants.io - we are hiring ! On a more serious note. Things like this is great if done correctly. If an professional industry can be grown around child care, I think its better than having parents do infinite amount of harm to their kids. However its almost ridiculous that society is heading that way. One of the foundation of society is the relationship between parents and their kids. That relationship develops in early childhood. I think parents in hong kong are taking life way too seriously - what are you gaining out of it ? Does it matter that your city is twice as performant as new-york or shanghai. My grandmother still lives by global standards below the global proverty line by income. And she has the most chilled life I have seen. Ofcourse if your country is ravaged by malaria or violence then there is something that needs to be done. Humans are not machines - we have computers now for that. Human creativity pays itself and creativity comes from boredom and self learing. Also being from a culture similar to hong- kong. these types of things instil a sense of "FUCK YOU IF YOU FAIL!" This is very counterproductive attitude to have if you expect to be part of the social chain of invention from galileo and newton.

stdbrouw 11y ago
> If an professional industry can be grown around child care, I think its better than having parents do infinite amount of harm to their kids. We know that if you drink lots of alcohol while pregnant, you're going to harm your child. We also know that if you are abusive towards your children, they might end up with all sorts of psychological trauma. But beyond that? Different parenting strategies probably have an effect on a kid's emotional and intellectual development, but the jury is still out on exactly how much of an effect and exactly what, then, the best parenting strategy is. So, doing an "infinite amount of harm" to your kids because you're somehow not a professional at raising kids? I don't think that's even possible. -- but anyway, I very much agree with the main point of your comment; society seems to increasingly want to turn people into robots.
- vgabios 11y ago
  Parents have to do a cost/benefit estimate and ask themselves rhetorically: are they social climbing through the kids "keeping up with the Jones'" and investing (or wasting) a large fraction of disposable income creating spoiled kids or creating lasting benefit? Could also be helicopter parenting meets academic overpressure, however there may be some value if subsequent schools look at, or are biased by, pedigree. That monoculture of demonstrated rarity which is a function of self-reinforcing exclusivity, i.e., just look at ASW. The likelihood of schools and other communal gatherings devolve into picky cliques is no surprise: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-social/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-...
- rayiner 11y ago
  Drinking during pregnancy is actually a good microcosm of parenting as a whole. The effect of light to moderate drinking during pregnancy on child IQ and attention is pretty much nonexistent: http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/key-findings-alcohol-use.html http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/key-findings-alcohol-use.html. And even among alcoholics, the probability of FAS is around 5%. Even pre-natal cocaine exposure isn't all its cracked up to be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_cocaine_exposure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_cocaine_exposure. Kids are surprisingly resilient, and the weight of the scientific evidence we have suggests that once confounding factors like socioeconomic status are accounted for, parenting choices don't have a large impact on at least the objectively measurable aspects of outcomes (e.g. IQ, test scores, attention span).
  - gdubs 11y ago
    I remember hearing a story of a mom flying on a French airline. They were liberal with the wine, but freaked out when she wanted a raw salad. Every culture is different when it comes to parenting :)
  - aidenn0 11y ago
    Early neglect and abuse have significant impacts on kids. Prenatal exposure to heroin is pretty gnarly too. It's actually surprising how horrible the effects of neglect (especially during the first 24 months) is on kids. You're probably worse off as a kid if your mother didn't do drugs during pregnancy, but then is too high to consistently take care of you for the next two years. [edit] Also if your parent does anything to put you in the foster care system in the first 3 years of your life; the system tends to move kids around a lot, and sudden changes to the primary caregiver between 6 months and 3 years significantly increases the risk for attachment disorders.
sz4kerto 11y ago
> On a more serious note. Things like this is great if done correctly. No, it's not great. Children should play, first and foremost. And not just when they're 2.5 -- even when they are 10. > f an professional industry can be grown around child care, I think its better than having parents do infinite amount of harm to their kids. In general, parents don't do infinite harm. They tend to love their kids -- a professional child carer won't. What's wrong with you, people?

ElijahLynn 11y ago

This is horrible. Kids shouldn't be stressed out like this in their early years/ Teach them how to be creative and let them play. We just went through the Princeton Waldorf school 'interview' process and guess what it was. Our 2.5 year old son playing with a wooden tow truck on the floor and slightly interacting with a 3 year old girl doing roughly the same with some other toys. The world needs creative engineers in all industries who can come up with original ideas not ones who are good at repeating and rote memorization, although those are fantastic secondary skills.

e40 11y ago
We just went through the Princeton Waldorf school 'interview' process and guess what it was. Our 2.5 year old son playing with a wooden tow truck on the floor and slightly interacting with a 3 year old girl doing roughly the same with some other toys. That implies that there was a wrong way to play and interact. Are they only taking good kids, or something?
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Doesn't sound very stressful for the child. And I suppose they were looking for behavior disorders etc. There sure IS a wrong way for a toddler to interact! Lots of behaviors are difficult to manage in a crowded classroom.
- ElijahLynn 11y ago
  I really don't know if they were looking for anything particular or what they were looking for if they were. Maybe they were actually looking at us, not the kid. We just asked them a lot of questions.
- emidln 11y ago
  Guessing that the wrong way involves throwing the wooden tow truck at the 3 year old girl.

blinkingled 11y ago

Humans making life miserable for other humans - kids edition.

sanmon3186 11y ago
Indian edition for little older kids http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/even-class-6-students-prepare-for-iit/article1-967199.aspx http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/even-class-6-students...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

Red_Tarsius 11y ago

> "At one tuition company, the Hong Kong Young Talents Association (HKYTA), a series of 12 training sessions costs HK$4,480 ($580; £390) - that's nearly a quarter of the median monthly household income." Sometimes I think that the Asian obsession with school curriculum was designed make money out of fear. Schools' focus should be learning itself. Any form of extrinsic reward – praises, grades, smileys – adds up to nullify the learning experience. imho we're raising a generation of selfish individuals. We're raising people who won't do anything without a solid structure and reward system to motivate them. Free play is what builds children's self-reliance and independence.

gdubs 11y ago
Structure can be very important to building self-esteem and confidence in a child. Many think it's critical to providing self-reliance and independence, perhaps counterintuitively. I'm not saying free play is unimportant. But structure provides routines that make kids feel confident. That the world isn't a completely chaotic place. It helps them learn about valuable skills like delayed gratification. Etc.

rquantz 11y ago

NYC toddlers go through the same thing, and I hear parents here complaining about getting their kids into a good kindergarten all the time. There is a funnel from the best kindergartens to the best private schools, to the Ivy League schools, to the top law firms and medical schools, and for some of very best schools, the rate of acceptance into Ivy League schools is so high that by getting your kid into the right kindergarten they are essentially set for life. It is absolute madness that an interview at the age of four could be so determinative of one's entire life. Yet another way that privilege tends to compound.

Red_Tarsius 11y ago
imho it's not privilege, but wishful thinking: the snake oil of modern education.
- Zikes 11y ago
  It's not the education that matters, it's the relationships and prestige.
ovulator 11y ago
Here is the thing, the kid that makes it into this kindergarten does so because their parent is both connected and wealthy no? That means that the rejects are also connected and wealthy, yes? Those rejects then mix in with the plebs at a normal school. That normal school has a much lower acceptance rate into the Ivys, but who from those schools is making it in. Probably the wealthy and connected rejects. So did the elite kindergarten matter at all? This of course is all conjecture, and I would love to see actual data on the subject.
mrev19 11y ago
A person who follows a path laid out for them by others from the age of four without veering will encounter challenges later in life involving self-direction and identity. 'Set for life' is a dangerous delusion.
- Zikes 11y ago