6 ms·

I've actually been playing with the idea of a "monastery" for mathematicians; we could get a group of mathematicians together to live simply and cheaply somewhe

I've actually been playing with the idea of a "monastery" for mathematicians; we could get a group of mathematicians together to live simply and cheaply somewhere, subsisting on a small amount of savings and freeing up time to study and solve problems.

drcross 11y ago
Move to a cheap part of the county and apply for unemployment benefit. Problem solved.
j2kun 11y ago
I would consider signing up. The problem is finding a place, funding, and someone to administrate it.
pcrh 11y ago
You could take in a few select students as well. Then maybe award them a certificate of completion (a "degree", if you will). In exchange, they would maybe make a small contribution towards the running costs.
nnq 11y ago
I thought about something similar, but more like a "monastery-style research institute" where people, with some amount of provable expertise, regardless of credentials or previous publications, would be able to check-in for pre-determined period of time and just do "open ended research" (the kind of things no sane university or corporation would ever pay for...) and have living expenses plus other basic needs provided, and spared from having to waste energy in the meaningless and draining "dance" we call "social life", for with the sole condition that their research is "open source" and that they are actually staying there working, not just using it as a free/cheap rent. The "monastery" could also be run as a business, having a for-profit section developing products based on the ideas produced inside. Something like the members of the monastery signing an agreement that they are ok with their results being published with one year delay, time that would give an edge to the monastery over any competitors that would also want to develop products based on them - think of it like a "research monastery self-financed by coupling with a sort of startup incubator" (with some really intransigent and incorruptible people working to keep the two camps of people apart and to stop the "business idea developers" from exploiting the "monks"). And for research fields that require some expensive equipment, like bio-medical research, the "monastery" may make the "monks" sign contracts giving the patents and other right to their discoveries to the monastery, in exchange for having access to a lab where they can work on anything they want. It's not that utopic since you can a pretty usable top notch molecular biology lab plus an animal experiments facility for under $1M (probably not in the US because you have too many regulations and stuff...) if you find alternative channels of buying equipment of user other "hacks" that regular research institutes can't use... But it's the kind of idea that it's hard to convince other people it would make sense... so for now I'll keep it on my list of to-dos for after I get filthy rich so I can finance this myself.
- noonespecial 11y ago
  That sounds a great deal like what Universities are supposed to be. (Or did I miss the funny?)
- bandrami 11y ago
  Well, go back in time a thousand years and that would be a good description of why universities were chartered (with the exception that the "important topics" of the day were mostly theology, philosophy, and medicine -- the distinction is an anachronism, come to think of it).
capnrefsmmat 11y ago
Like the Institute for Advanced Study? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Advanced_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Advanced_Study On the other hand, Richard Hamming thinks this model won't work: > The great scientists often make this error. They fail to continue to plant the little acorns from which the mighty oak trees grow. They try to get the big thing right off. And that isn't the way things go. So that is another reason why you find that when you get early recognition it seems to sterilize you. In fact I will give you my favorite quotation of many years. The Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, in my opinion, has ruined more good scientists than any institution has created, judged by what they did before they came and judged by what they did after. Not that they weren't good afterwards, but they were superb before they got there and were only good afterwards. https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html
- carlob 11y ago
  Feynman on the IAS http://www.pitt.edu/~druzdzel/feynman.html http://www.pitt.edu/~druzdzel/feynman.html
fsk 11y ago
I've read and noticed some interesting things since I left graduate school. I just make them a blog post, rather than going through the hassle of trying to get it published in a major academic research publication. Since I'm not pursing an academic career, does it matter if 100 people read the post on my blog, or 5 people read it in some journal? An HN comment with +20 karma was probably read more times than most research papers in journals!
- Houshalter 11y ago
  Yes, but for reasons I still don't understand, the prestige of the publisher correlates with the recognition it gets. Even if more people read your blog post of your great idea, it's unlikely to get cited or recognized, and might even be entirely ignored by academics. Even outside academics this is true. A great essay, posted as a comment on HN or reddit, is going to be much less circulated than the same essay posted on a blog. E.g. I'll see a good essay on someone's blog and see that it's posted to 12 different subreddits and HN. If I say a great essay as a comment, even if it's of the same quality, I guarantee it will not be posted anywhere else.
xmjee 11y ago
You share this idea with Neal Stephenson, who wrote it up and made a >1000p book about it. www.amazon.com/Anathem-Neal-Stephenson/dp/006147410X/

drcross 11y ago

Move to a cheap part of the county and apply for unemployment benefit. Problem solved.

j2kun 11y ago

I would consider signing up. The problem is finding a place, funding, and someone to administrate it.

pcrh 11y ago

You could take in a few select students as well. Then maybe award them a certificate of completion (a "degree", if you will). In exchange, they would maybe make a small contribution towards the running costs.

nnq 11y ago

I thought about something similar, but more like a "monastery-style research institute" where people, with some amount of provable expertise, regardless of credentials or previous publications, would be able to check-in for pre-determined period of time and just do "open ended research" (the kind of things no sane university or corporation would ever pay for...) and have living expenses plus other basic needs provided, and spared from having to waste energy in the meaningless and draining "dance" we call "social life", for with the sole condition that their research is "open source" and that they are actually staying there working, not just using it as a free/cheap rent. The "monastery" could also be run as a business, having a for-profit section developing products based on the ideas produced inside. Something like the members of the monastery signing an agreement that they are ok with their results being published with one year delay, time that would give an edge to the monastery over any competitors that would also want to develop products based on them - think of it like a "research monastery self-financed by coupling with a sort of startup incubator" (with some really intransigent and incorruptible people working to keep the two camps of people apart and to stop the "business idea developers" from exploiting the "monks"). And for research fields that require some expensive equipment, like bio-medical research, the "monastery" may make the "monks" sign contracts giving the patents and other right to their discoveries to the monastery, in exchange for having access to a lab where they can work on anything they want. It's not that utopic since you can a pretty usable top notch molecular biology lab plus an animal experiments facility for under $1M (probably not in the US because you have too many regulations and stuff...) if you find alternative channels of buying equipment of user other "hacks" that regular research institutes can't use... But it's the kind of idea that it's hard to convince other people it would make sense... so for now I'll keep it on my list of to-dos for after I get filthy rich so I can finance this myself.

noonespecial 11y ago
That sounds a great deal like what Universities are supposed to be. (Or did I miss the funny?)
bandrami 11y ago
Well, go back in time a thousand years and that would be a good description of why universities were chartered (with the exception that the "important topics" of the day were mostly theology, philosophy, and medicine -- the distinction is an anachronism, come to think of it).

capnrefsmmat 11y ago

Like the Institute for Advanced Study? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Advanced_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Advanced_Study On the other hand, Richard Hamming thinks this model won't work: > The great scientists often make this error. They fail to continue to plant the little acorns from which the mighty oak trees grow. They try to get the big thing right off. And that isn't the way things go. So that is another reason why you find that when you get early recognition it seems to sterilize you. In fact I will give you my favorite quotation of many years. The Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, in my opinion, has ruined more good scientists than any institution has created, judged by what they did before they came and judged by what they did after. Not that they weren't good afterwards, but they were superb before they got there and were only good afterwards. https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html

carlob 11y ago
Feynman on the IAS http://www.pitt.edu/~druzdzel/feynman.html http://www.pitt.edu/~druzdzel/feynman.html

fsk 11y ago

I've read and noticed some interesting things since I left graduate school. I just make them a blog post, rather than going through the hassle of trying to get it published in a major academic research publication. Since I'm not pursing an academic career, does it matter if 100 people read the post on my blog, or 5 people read it in some journal? An HN comment with +20 karma was probably read more times than most research papers in journals!

Houshalter 11y ago
Yes, but for reasons I still don't understand, the prestige of the publisher correlates with the recognition it gets. Even if more people read your blog post of your great idea, it's unlikely to get cited or recognized, and might even be entirely ignored by academics. Even outside academics this is true. A great essay, posted as a comment on HN or reddit, is going to be much less circulated than the same essay posted on a blog. E.g. I'll see a good essay on someone's blog and see that it's posted to 12 different subreddits and HN. If I say a great essay as a comment, even if it's of the same quality, I guarantee it will not be posted anywhere else.

xmjee 11y ago

You share this idea with Neal Stephenson, who wrote it up and made a >1000p book about it. www.amazon.com/Anathem-Neal-Stephenson/dp/006147410X/