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> Everyone else should get up to speed. Why? Admittedly, everything I know (not much!) about critical theory comes from hearing people talk about critical theo

> Everyone else should get up to speed. Why? Admittedly, everything I know (not much!) about critical theory comes from hearing people talk about critical theory, and not from first sources, but I don't see why it's more compelling than philosophy in general? So, really, I'm posing that question completely seriously. Why should I study critical theory in general, or Focault in particular? Keep in mind it's not "Why should I spend time studying critical theory rather than spend time doing nothing", it's "Why should I spend time studying critical theory rather than some other philosophy/science/technology/art?"

steveklabnik 11y ago
Well, Foucault's work is about a lot of things, but here's one that should certainly interest technologists: what is power? How does it affect us? What does it do to shape societies? Etc. Critical theory in general? Well, it depends on what you're trying to get out of your time with philosophy. I'm particularly interested in technology's affect on humans, so something like critical theory gives me useful intellectual tools. But if the human side of things doesn't appeal to you, you may not particularly care.
- pjonesdotca 11y ago
  And if that is an interesting topic for a technologist than the work of Bernard Stiegler is fairly essential to seeing where continental thinking seems to be headed. http://www.amazon.com/New-Critique-Political-Economy/dp/0745648045/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/New-Critique-Political-Economy/dp/0745...
snowwrestler 11y ago
I took classes in literary criticism during college, and I think they have given me mental habits and tools that have served me very well. Essentially, it helps me see the hidden layer under what people say and (especially) write--the influences, desires, assumptions, etc. that create differences in how each person thinks and communicates. This has been helpful as I have moved into a management role. Office politics often are the end result of unspoken agendas and wishes of coworkers. Critical theory helps infer those from the seemingly straightforward text of emails and what people say in conversation. What people want and what they say are often two different things. Engineers and programmers, used to working with systems whose behaviors are explicitly and objectively defined, can find this frustrating. My opinion, it is reality, so might as well deal with it. I've found critical theory helpful in that.
innguest 11y ago
> Why should I study critical theory in general, or Focault in particular? You should study Foucault to better see the prisons you live in. Foucault is postmodernist critical theory. Plain old Critical Theory you should study to understand how people today are subtly manipulated (the Hegelian dialectic is a good start). This is the tool that is systematically applied by our overlords to steer public perception.
jsl 11y ago
One example of where Foucault would be useful to technologists in particular is in understanding the role of discourses in perpetuating gender inequalities in technology. Foucault talked about how we reinforce power relations through the internalization and mobilization of discourse. For Foucault, power is best understood by studying our everyday interactions, instead of examining decrees from those in authority. Power affects us so deeply that we often don't realize how our speech and actions reinforce systems of inequality. Working in software, I see exclusionary comments at least on a weekly basis that almost slip under the radar as being innocuous until you realize that this is exactly the form of power that Foucault analyzes in his studies. So to answer your question, assuming since you're posting in HN that you're in the software field, you may be interested in reading Foucault if you're interested in obtaining additional analytical tools to understand and improve the currently horrible, exclusionary system that permeates the software world. As a disclaimer, I'm not saying that Foucault is the only way to understand this phenomenon, nor even necessarily the best. Just trying to point out some concrete ways in which his concepts may be useful in certain scenarios.
- detcader 11y ago
  If one is still able to use the framing of "inequality" and "exclusion" then it seems as if Foucault hasn't helped much. "Gender" is a system of resource extraction. Women are not "excluded" in tech and elsewhere, they are literally defined as resources, as objects that have and produce value. Women are not "unequal" -- this implies that within the system of gender, both women and men are people who simply don't have the exact same capital. But men do not view women as people under gender. See Beatrix Campbell's "End of Equality". [0] It is ultimately impossible to understand any microcosm of oppression through individualism. Women and men are social classes, with "gender" being the name referring to the process of securing class:Men's interests as a whole. Individual anti-woman comments do not "reinforce" "inequality", they are symptoms of gender itself. Noel Ignatiev's essay "The Point Is Not To Interpret Whiteness But To To Abolish It" responds to attempts to understand oppression with individualist ideologies [1]: > Just as the capitalist system is not a capitalist plot, so racial oppression is not the work of "racists." It is maintained by the principal institutions of society, including the schools (which define "excellence"), the labor market (which defines "employment"), the legal system (which defines "crime"), the welfare system (which defines "poverty"), the medical industry (which defines "health"), and the family (which defines "kinship"). Many of these institutions are administered by people who would be offended if accused of complicity with racial oppression. It is reinforced by reform programs that address problems traditionally of concern to the "left" - for example, federal housing loan guarantees. The simple fact is that the public schools and the welfare departments are doing more harm to black children than all the "racist" groups combined. [0] http://www.troubleandstrife.org/2014/04/the-end-of-equality/ http://www.troubleandstrife.org/2014/04/the-end-of-equality/ [1] http://racetraitor.org/abolishthepoint.html http://racetraitor.org/abolishthepoint.html
formulaT 11y ago
One application would be the deconstruction of the concept of "appropriateness" in tech. Many people hold an essentialist view, that for example, sexual comments are inappropriate in a professional setting. But a closer examinations shows that sexual comments are not always viewed as inappropriate, if they are seen as coming from a person who has proven they hold progressive political views, or are seen as furthering a progressive agenda. Therefore, two men giggling about dongles is viewed as inappropriate[0], while the hackathon "Stupid Shit No One Needs and Terrible Ideas" was widely lauded on HN in spite of containing body shaming[1] and explicit sexual content. The latter was not considered inappropriate because it was critical of tech culture, which is seen as being dominated by White males, and therefore deserving of highly negative satire. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_vigilantism#PyCon_Dongle_Incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_vigilantism#PyCon_Dong... [1] http://www.stupidhackathon.com/ http://www.stupidhackathon.com/ see "Intellectual Babes Calendar"

steveklabnik 11y ago

Well, Foucault's work is about a lot of things, but here's one that should certainly interest technologists: what is power? How does it affect us? What does it do to shape societies? Etc. Critical theory in general? Well, it depends on what you're trying to get out of your time with philosophy. I'm particularly interested in technology's affect on humans, so something like critical theory gives me useful intellectual tools. But if the human side of things doesn't appeal to you, you may not particularly care.

pjonesdotca 11y ago
And if that is an interesting topic for a technologist than the work of Bernard Stiegler is fairly essential to seeing where continental thinking seems to be headed. http://www.amazon.com/New-Critique-Political-Economy/dp/0745648045/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/New-Critique-Political-Economy/dp/0745...

snowwrestler 11y ago

I took classes in literary criticism during college, and I think they have given me mental habits and tools that have served me very well. Essentially, it helps me see the hidden layer under what people say and (especially) write--the influences, desires, assumptions, etc. that create differences in how each person thinks and communicates. This has been helpful as I have moved into a management role. Office politics often are the end result of unspoken agendas and wishes of coworkers. Critical theory helps infer those from the seemingly straightforward text of emails and what people say in conversation. What people want and what they say are often two different things. Engineers and programmers, used to working with systems whose behaviors are explicitly and objectively defined, can find this frustrating. My opinion, it is reality, so might as well deal with it. I've found critical theory helpful in that.

innguest 11y ago

> Why should I study critical theory in general, or Focault in particular? You should study Foucault to better see the prisons you live in. Foucault is postmodernist critical theory. Plain old Critical Theory you should study to understand how people today are subtly manipulated (the Hegelian dialectic is a good start). This is the tool that is systematically applied by our overlords to steer public perception.

jsl 11y ago

One example of where Foucault would be useful to technologists in particular is in understanding the role of discourses in perpetuating gender inequalities in technology. Foucault talked about how we reinforce power relations through the internalization and mobilization of discourse. For Foucault, power is best understood by studying our everyday interactions, instead of examining decrees from those in authority. Power affects us so deeply that we often don't realize how our speech and actions reinforce systems of inequality. Working in software, I see exclusionary comments at least on a weekly basis that almost slip under the radar as being innocuous until you realize that this is exactly the form of power that Foucault analyzes in his studies. So to answer your question, assuming since you're posting in HN that you're in the software field, you may be interested in reading Foucault if you're interested in obtaining additional analytical tools to understand and improve the currently horrible, exclusionary system that permeates the software world. As a disclaimer, I'm not saying that Foucault is the only way to understand this phenomenon, nor even necessarily the best. Just trying to point out some concrete ways in which his concepts may be useful in certain scenarios.

detcader 11y ago
If one is still able to use the framing of "inequality" and "exclusion" then it seems as if Foucault hasn't helped much. "Gender" is a system of resource extraction. Women are not "excluded" in tech and elsewhere, they are literally defined as resources, as objects that have and produce value. Women are not "unequal" -- this implies that within the system of gender, both women and men are people who simply don't have the exact same capital. But men do not view women as people under gender. See Beatrix Campbell's "End of Equality". [0] It is ultimately impossible to understand any microcosm of oppression through individualism. Women and men are social classes, with "gender" being the name referring to the process of securing class:Men's interests as a whole. Individual anti-woman comments do not "reinforce" "inequality", they are symptoms of gender itself. Noel Ignatiev's essay "The Point Is Not To Interpret Whiteness But To To Abolish It" responds to attempts to understand oppression with individualist ideologies [1]: > Just as the capitalist system is not a capitalist plot, so racial oppression is not the work of "racists." It is maintained by the principal institutions of society, including the schools (which define "excellence"), the labor market (which defines "employment"), the legal system (which defines "crime"), the welfare system (which defines "poverty"), the medical industry (which defines "health"), and the family (which defines "kinship"). Many of these institutions are administered by people who would be offended if accused of complicity with racial oppression. It is reinforced by reform programs that address problems traditionally of concern to the "left" - for example, federal housing loan guarantees. The simple fact is that the public schools and the welfare departments are doing more harm to black children than all the "racist" groups combined. [0] http://www.troubleandstrife.org/2014/04/the-end-of-equality/ http://www.troubleandstrife.org/2014/04/the-end-of-equality/ [1] http://racetraitor.org/abolishthepoint.html http://racetraitor.org/abolishthepoint.html

formulaT 11y ago

One application would be the deconstruction of the concept of "appropriateness" in tech. Many people hold an essentialist view, that for example, sexual comments are inappropriate in a professional setting. But a closer examinations shows that sexual comments are not always viewed as inappropriate, if they are seen as coming from a person who has proven they hold progressive political views, or are seen as furthering a progressive agenda. Therefore, two men giggling about dongles is viewed as inappropriate[0], while the hackathon "Stupid Shit No One Needs and Terrible Ideas" was widely lauded on HN in spite of containing body shaming[1] and explicit sexual content. The latter was not considered inappropriate because it was critical of tech culture, which is seen as being dominated by White males, and therefore deserving of highly negative satire. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_vigilantism#PyCon_Dongle_Incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_vigilantism#PyCon_Dong... [1] http://www.stupidhackathon.com/ http://www.stupidhackathon.com/ see "Intellectual Babes Calendar"