6 ms·

Obstacles for kdbus

38 points by vezzy-fnord 12y ago

sciurus 12y ago
Since this is on the front page of HN, I'll share a more recent and more detailed article from LWN about this. http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/641275/43136cb3c973ec6c/ http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/641275/43136cb3c973ec6c/ Consider subscribing to LWN!
- sho_hn 12y ago
  A LWN subscription is a must for anyone serious about the open source systems infrastructure in place today. While overall Linux-centric, a lot of the content in LWN's Weekly Issue deals with the greater community context (policy, legal, etc.) or with tooling also in use by others (e.g. toolchains, or culture enablement stuff like Nathan Willis' tremendously great coverage of the typography / font stack / localization engineering beat). It's not just a must because reading it is worth your time, but also because it's a venue worth supporting for the continued health of the ecosystem a lot of us exist in.
  - Spidler 12y ago
    I must say that I agree, and I'm personally _very_ fond of their business model. Having the articles become free no matter what, and having articles of a level of quality that they _Repeatedly_ get referenced in papers on computer science, is a great feat. Are there any other magazines online that have a good, weekly/bi-weekly posting schedule of multiple, high-quality and on-topic articles? I've seen ones related to photography, but not that have the same focus and high quality as LWN.
- RustyRussell 12y ago
  Heh, I came here to do exactly the same. I figure one free link per year on HN is about right for Manic Supporter level subscription, but you beat me to it.
voltagex_ 12y ago
Holy crap, the LWN comments are extremely vitriolic. I have stayed away from the systemd hatred - is it still a huge issue?
- elwin 12y ago
  The current kdbus controversy is unrelated to systemd, as far as I can tell.
  - comex 12y ago
    The motive for kdbus came from the systemd project: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-March/009797.html http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-Mar...
    - XorNot 12y ago
      And as stated in the article the concept is a good deal older then that with as storied a history at every turn.
    - sciurus 12y ago
      The motive and possible solutions goes back further that systemd; see https://lwn.net/Articles/551969/ https://lwn.net/Articles/551969/
  - bandrami 12y ago
    Systemd is why kdbus is even being talked about (personally, I think it's a crazy idea, but then I don't use dbus even on my desktop), and the two projects share a lot of developers.
- anonbanker 12y ago
  the users are collectively not happy with the choices their representatives are making. Especially when this choice compromises the GPL itself (Non-free software/modules/derivatives communicating over RPC to GPL'd libraries via systemd is a violation of the license), and GNU principles. I have high hopes for Devuan and other non-systemd distros, but I never discount the docility of linux users en masse, and hold the opinion that once systemd got into debian, it would never get out again. I am personally running a systemd-free arch linux install, and am switching all my machines to either Gentoo or OpenBSD, depending on use, in order to avoid systemd (or NetworkManager, or PulseAudio) being installed. I'm a tad more militant than most, though.
username223 12y ago
Um, wow [1]... > The only insult in that incoherent pile of metaphors is the fact that we belong to the same species. And since you cause _that_ offence simply by being yourself, well... everyone got used to it by now. This is the internet, so I'm used to adults behaving like 5th graders sometimes, but when those same adults -- Al Viro -- write core infrastructure, something's seriously wrong. [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/640643/ https://lwn.net/Articles/640643/
- anonbanker 12y ago
  you should have posted the parent post, from Jóhann B. Guðmundsson, a systemd/kdbus dev[1]: > Last time I made reference to you living in a glass house you did not have the mental capacity to understand it so I sincerely doubt that your slowly growing senile brain can comprehend it now. Al Viro was responding to something far more vitriolic. His response was understandable. Though, when arguing with a poisonous person, from enough distance, nobody can tell which is the poisonous one. 1. https://lwn.net/Articles/640636/ https://lwn.net/Articles/640636/
  - digi_owl 12y ago
    there are some other interesting exchanges in those article comments as well.
  - username223 12y ago
    > His response was understandable. His response was childish. The sane thing for a middle-aged man in a semi-respected position to do would be to say nothing. But this is the Land of Drepper, so you may be right.

38 points by vezzy-fnord 12y ago

Since this is on the front page of HN, I'll share a more recent and more detailed article from LWN about this. http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/641275/43136cb3c973ec6c/ http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/641275/43136cb3c973ec6c/ Consider subscribing to LWN!

sho_hn 12y ago
A LWN subscription is a must for anyone serious about the open source systems infrastructure in place today. While overall Linux-centric, a lot of the content in LWN's Weekly Issue deals with the greater community context (policy, legal, etc.) or with tooling also in use by others (e.g. toolchains, or culture enablement stuff like Nathan Willis' tremendously great coverage of the typography / font stack / localization engineering beat). It's not just a must because reading it is worth your time, but also because it's a venue worth supporting for the continued health of the ecosystem a lot of us exist in.
- Spidler 12y ago
  I must say that I agree, and I'm personally _very_ fond of their business model. Having the articles become free no matter what, and having articles of a level of quality that they _Repeatedly_ get referenced in papers on computer science, is a great feat. Are there any other magazines online that have a good, weekly/bi-weekly posting schedule of multiple, high-quality and on-topic articles? I've seen ones related to photography, but not that have the same focus and high quality as LWN.
RustyRussell 12y ago
Heh, I came here to do exactly the same. I figure one free link per year on HN is about right for Manic Supporter level subscription, but you beat me to it.

voltagex_ 12y ago

Holy crap, the LWN comments are extremely vitriolic. I have stayed away from the systemd hatred - is it still a huge issue?

elwin 12y ago
The current kdbus controversy is unrelated to systemd, as far as I can tell.
- comex 12y ago
  The motive for kdbus came from the systemd project: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-March/009797.html http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-Mar...
  - XorNot 12y ago
    And as stated in the article the concept is a good deal older then that with as storied a history at every turn.
  - sciurus 12y ago
    The motive and possible solutions goes back further that systemd; see https://lwn.net/Articles/551969/ https://lwn.net/Articles/551969/
- bandrami 12y ago
  Systemd is why kdbus is even being talked about (personally, I think it's a crazy idea, but then I don't use dbus even on my desktop), and the two projects share a lot of developers.
anonbanker 12y ago
the users are collectively not happy with the choices their representatives are making. Especially when this choice compromises the GPL itself (Non-free software/modules/derivatives communicating over RPC to GPL'd libraries via systemd is a violation of the license), and GNU principles. I have high hopes for Devuan and other non-systemd distros, but I never discount the docility of linux users en masse, and hold the opinion that once systemd got into debian, it would never get out again. I am personally running a systemd-free arch linux install, and am switching all my machines to either Gentoo or OpenBSD, depending on use, in order to avoid systemd (or NetworkManager, or PulseAudio) being installed. I'm a tad more militant than most, though.

username223 12y ago

Um, wow [1]... > The only insult in that incoherent pile of metaphors is the fact that we belong to the same species. And since you cause _that_ offence simply by being yourself, well... everyone got used to it by now. This is the internet, so I'm used to adults behaving like 5th graders sometimes, but when those same adults -- Al Viro -- write core infrastructure, something's seriously wrong. [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/640643/ https://lwn.net/Articles/640643/

anonbanker 12y ago
you should have posted the parent post, from Jóhann B. Guðmundsson, a systemd/kdbus dev[1]: > Last time I made reference to you living in a glass house you did not have the mental capacity to understand it so I sincerely doubt that your slowly growing senile brain can comprehend it now. Al Viro was responding to something far more vitriolic. His response was understandable. Though, when arguing with a poisonous person, from enough distance, nobody can tell which is the poisonous one. 1. https://lwn.net/Articles/640636/ https://lwn.net/Articles/640636/
- digi_owl 12y ago
  there are some other interesting exchanges in those article comments as well.
- username223 12y ago
  > His response was understandable. His response was childish. The sane thing for a middle-aged man in a semi-respected position to do would be to say nothing. But this is the Land of Drepper, so you may be right.