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In this context absolutely worth mentioning is the Public Transport Enabler (https://github.com/schildbach/public-transport-enabler https://github.com/schildbac

by orless 11y ago

In this context absolutely worth mentioning is the Public Transport Enabler (https://github.com/schildbach/public-transport-enabler https://github.com/schildbach/public-transport-enabler). This is what we used to create this prototype: https://medium.com/@highsource/reliable-train-connections-app-wins-the-first-deutsche-bahn-hackathon-3419ef275bfc https://medium.com/@highsource/reliable-train-connections-ap... Disclaimer: I'm working for the Deutsche Bahn (German Railways) and try do some persuasion work towards Open Data here internally.

_stk 11y ago
Systel? Been at the Hackathon recently? :)
- orless 11y ago
  Won it. :)
  - _stk 11y ago
    Ah, A.V., w/ Falco from our group in Ulm? The world is small ;)
  - sdoering 11y ago
    Just read the posting and have to say, I really would dig the Chrome extension - and having a lot of traveling colleagues here in Hamburg, they would too. Also the app - this would really be a great app to have. Kudos!
    - orless 11y ago
      Thank you for the feedback. The Chrome extension is meaningless without the service providing the data. And the data isn't set free, unfortunately. We're talking to DB Vertrieb about this app next week.
mafribe 11y ago
Could you explain why a railway operator might not want their data to be opened? After all, better availability of data might convince more people to use trains.
- gsnedders 11y ago
  Traditionally access to the data has been sold; making it public loses that income.
- orless 11y ago
  This is a difficult matter. I'm actually on the Open Data side (not the "dark force"), but let me play the devil's advocate here. * What if the data will be used to convince people to use less trains? Busses and car sharing are now a huge competition. What if someone would take the data and represent it in a way very unfavourable for the long-distance trains? There are multiple ways to "tweak" the statistics without actually lying. * DB is not a single entity but rather a complex network of smaller companies and departments within them. At the moment there's no Open Data directive from the top so they basically have to decide on their own. This has at least a few problems for department heads: * responsibility - you can easily get your head off for a wrong data sharing decision; * losing data as the asset - departments often use data they have as a leverage when negotiating with other departments and companies, it's a valuable assed; * data ownage question - you normally don't have "pure" data, you have data coming from somewhere else which you enhance/process, so before sharing that you have to clear if you actually have the rights to. Having a few dozen "historically grown" data sources, this may be very difficult; * have to pay to prepare the data for sharing. Like, convert gigabyte-sized Acces "databases" into something more usable, specifying interfaces and so on. This is a huge effort, and who pays for that? * Next, there are a few political problems like "non-discrimination" EU directives. Every public stunt for DB Netz, for instance, may lead to a "discrimination" suite from some operator. So there's a risk of legal problems. * DB gets a few billions a year from the state to maintain and improve the infrastructure (look up LuFV). What if some clever reporter will use the data and prove that DB could have invested and maintained better? And you're getting a few millions fine from the state/EBA? The list goes on. For decision makers the risks and dangers are obvious but the benefits are not, or at least not yet. So I'm very glad about the rising "hackathon" movement here as it is a good way to show that there may be real and direct benefits. This may really help to persuade people.
matrixagent 11y ago
I'd love to get GPS tracks for the german railway system, been looking for something like that forever. Good luck with and thanks for your efforts!
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Its not in OpenStreetMap already!?!
biafra 11y ago
transport-enabler is also used by the Android app Öffi or Oeffi :-)
rndn 11y ago
May I ask why the sessions expire so quickly on the DB website? That can be quite annoying—to say the least, for example when one wants to go back in the browser history or check on the status of a certain connection in case of strikes or severe weather.
- orless 11y ago
  I'm not on that very project, but my guess would be that sessions are not completely stateles on the server side so they have to have session timeouts to drop obsolete sessions. I'll ask when I meet someone from that project.
  - rndn 11y ago
    That would be great. I'm genuinely interested, also why they manage sessions in the first place.

by orless 11y ago

_stk 11y ago

Systel? Been at the Hackathon recently? :)

orless 11y ago
Won it. :)
- _stk 11y ago
  Ah, A.V., w/ Falco from our group in Ulm? The world is small ;)
- sdoering 11y ago
  Just read the posting and have to say, I really would dig the Chrome extension - and having a lot of traveling colleagues here in Hamburg, they would too. Also the app - this would really be a great app to have. Kudos!
  - orless 11y ago
    Thank you for the feedback. The Chrome extension is meaningless without the service providing the data. And the data isn't set free, unfortunately. We're talking to DB Vertrieb about this app next week.

mafribe 11y ago

Could you explain why a railway operator might not want their data to be opened? After all, better availability of data might convince more people to use trains.

gsnedders 11y ago
Traditionally access to the data has been sold; making it public loses that income.
orless 11y ago
This is a difficult matter. I'm actually on the Open Data side (not the "dark force"), but let me play the devil's advocate here. * What if the data will be used to convince people to use less trains? Busses and car sharing are now a huge competition. What if someone would take the data and represent it in a way very unfavourable for the long-distance trains? There are multiple ways to "tweak" the statistics without actually lying. * DB is not a single entity but rather a complex network of smaller companies and departments within them. At the moment there's no Open Data directive from the top so they basically have to decide on their own. This has at least a few problems for department heads: * responsibility - you can easily get your head off for a wrong data sharing decision; * losing data as the asset - departments often use data they have as a leverage when negotiating with other departments and companies, it's a valuable assed; * data ownage question - you normally don't have "pure" data, you have data coming from somewhere else which you enhance/process, so before sharing that you have to clear if you actually have the rights to. Having a few dozen "historically grown" data sources, this may be very difficult; * have to pay to prepare the data for sharing. Like, convert gigabyte-sized Acces "databases" into something more usable, specifying interfaces and so on. This is a huge effort, and who pays for that? * Next, there are a few political problems like "non-discrimination" EU directives. Every public stunt for DB Netz, for instance, may lead to a "discrimination" suite from some operator. So there's a risk of legal problems. * DB gets a few billions a year from the state to maintain and improve the infrastructure (look up LuFV). What if some clever reporter will use the data and prove that DB could have invested and maintained better? And you're getting a few millions fine from the state/EBA? The list goes on. For decision makers the risks and dangers are obvious but the benefits are not, or at least not yet. So I'm very glad about the rising "hackathon" movement here as it is a good way to show that there may be real and direct benefits. This may really help to persuade people.

matrixagent 11y ago

I'd love to get GPS tracks for the german railway system, been looking for something like that forever. Good luck with and thanks for your efforts!

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Its not in OpenStreetMap already!?!

biafra 11y ago

transport-enabler is also used by the Android app Öffi or Oeffi :-)

rndn 11y ago

May I ask why the sessions expire so quickly on the DB website? That can be quite annoying—to say the least, for example when one wants to go back in the browser history or check on the status of a certain connection in case of strikes or severe weather.

orless 11y ago
I'm not on that very project, but my guess would be that sessions are not completely stateles on the server side so they have to have session timeouts to drop obsolete sessions. I'll ask when I meet someone from that project.
- rndn 11y ago
  That would be great. I'm genuinely interested, also why they manage sessions in the first place.