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> I never asked questions; never used any tutors or talked to a professor; I am a professor (albeit at a non-elite university). How do I persuade students such

> I never asked questions; never used any tutors or talked to a professor; I am a professor (albeit at a non-elite university). How do I persuade students such as yourself to ask questions, to use tutors, to show up to office hours, and to talk to me?

deleted 12y ago
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JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Hard. I would have evaded your attempts to talk to me. Anything to avoid standing out from the rest. Maybe if everyone had a regular TA one-on-one or something? So they could identify, in private, who needed help and get that scheduled.
dzdt 12y ago
Next time you return a graded paper to them, write a note asking them to come to your next office hour or make a separate appointment to see you.
HarryHirsch 12y ago
25 years ago, at my university, the first thing in the first lecture the professor said was to form study groups. Those who didn't would feel the loneliness and pressure too overwhelming and would drop out. This was over on the old continent, not in America. This is asking the students to show initiative, I don't know how well that would work with contemporary American kids.
EliRivers 12y ago
Make it explicit. Stand at the front, where you usually do (I presume), and say in a big loud voice that you are aware that many of the students in front of you are used to doing everything themselves, without help and without asking for help. And that this does not carry over and here the rules are different and they are now expected to ask questions and seek to discuss, even if they already understand, because an academic tutorial is not just extra lecture time, but a socratic expansion of understanding that every - EVERY - student benefits from, and leaves knowing more than they did when they went in. You might (will) have to say it more than once, and very explicitly, because they are used to hearing well-meaning similar statements that they have learned to ignore. But just say it, explicitly. They're not stupid; just conditioned. Breaking through that conditioning is hard, so hard. The rich kids see your office-hours as a right (and, as I expect you know, see extensions on deadlines and arguing their grades up and being entitled to second chances as a right), the poor kids don't really believe they exist. Breaking that conditioning is possible, so long as you can see it to hit it.
camikazeg 12y ago
When I was in college I didn't even know what that conversation would sound like. I knew that I was supposed to go to office hours and start a relationship with my professors, but I pictured it as me standing in their doorway, not knowing what to say.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  I recall that! I (once) went to the Engineering building during office hours, lurked in the hallway, peeked in his door. He was grading papers. So I didn't bother him and left. And that was it for me visiting during office hours.
logfromblammo 12y ago
If a student is struggling and does not use the available resources for catching up with the rest of the class, it may be for any of several reasons: - Asking for help is a display of weakness, and that student has been conditioned to conceal his or her weaknesses. - The student has feelings of inferiority that lead him or her to assume that they do not deserve additional assistance. - The student has given his or her last pennies to the bursar and the bookseller, is literally living in a van and gleaning the trash to meet survival needs, and is avoiding peers and professors to conceal this lifestyle. - The student has a job, and the work schedule interferes with your office hours. You don't pay them to show up, so you lose the conflict. - The student is simply unaware that such resources are available in general, or available to him or her, specifically. - The student has adopted compensation strategies to deal with an environment unsupportive of their goals. Being invisible and anonymous may be one of them. Wearing a "mask personality" in public may be another. - The student is conditioned to believe that no one offers help without expecting something in return. In some cases, accepting help is actually dangerous. (Remember how I helped you out with your rent? Good. Hide this gun for me. You owe me.) Just use your position of perceived authority, and order them to show up. If you teach an intro-level class, draw lots, and assign every one of your students to visit you during your office hours in a specific, scheduled, 10-minute window prior to midterms. This is where you actually teach the student how to interact with professors outside the classroom. With each student, talk a little about your class, and a little about anything else. Make it a pass-fail item on the syllabus. Show up? Get some free course credit. Don't show? 0 points. (If you really kick ass at this, you can play "friend matchmaker" and try to coerce your students into befriending and helping each other.) Remember, there are no classes in most public high schools on how to "do college". Those kids are learning it as they go.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Another reason: the student grew up in a rural community, and has rarely dealt with anyone they don't know and aren't related to, so are congenitally incapable of approaching a professor unintroduced.
honestcoyote 12y ago
One thing that helped me was the professor emphasizing email and the class forums on the crappy uni CMS. I know you'd probably prefer students showing up in person, but for people like me, email ensured I would stay in communication with the professor outside of class. I would feel like I was wasting the prof's time if I went to her office with a dumb question, but didn't feel the same pressure if I emailed the question. I ended up having extended conversations with the majority of my professors this way, and ultimately built relationships which made me feel comfortable about dropping in during office hours.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

Hard. I would have evaded your attempts to talk to me. Anything to avoid standing out from the rest. Maybe if everyone had a regular TA one-on-one or something? So they could identify, in private, who needed help and get that scheduled.

dzdt 12y ago

Next time you return a graded paper to them, write a note asking them to come to your next office hour or make a separate appointment to see you.

HarryHirsch 12y ago

25 years ago, at my university, the first thing in the first lecture the professor said was to form study groups. Those who didn't would feel the loneliness and pressure too overwhelming and would drop out. This was over on the old continent, not in America. This is asking the students to show initiative, I don't know how well that would work with contemporary American kids.

EliRivers 12y ago

Make it explicit. Stand at the front, where you usually do (I presume), and say in a big loud voice that you are aware that many of the students in front of you are used to doing everything themselves, without help and without asking for help. And that this does not carry over and here the rules are different and they are now expected to ask questions and seek to discuss, even if they already understand, because an academic tutorial is not just extra lecture time, but a socratic expansion of understanding that every - EVERY - student benefits from, and leaves knowing more than they did when they went in. You might (will) have to say it more than once, and very explicitly, because they are used to hearing well-meaning similar statements that they have learned to ignore. But just say it, explicitly. They're not stupid; just conditioned. Breaking through that conditioning is hard, so hard. The rich kids see your office-hours as a right (and, as I expect you know, see extensions on deadlines and arguing their grades up and being entitled to second chances as a right), the poor kids don't really believe they exist. Breaking that conditioning is possible, so long as you can see it to hit it.

camikazeg 12y ago

When I was in college I didn't even know what that conversation would sound like. I knew that I was supposed to go to office hours and start a relationship with my professors, but I pictured it as me standing in their doorway, not knowing what to say.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
I recall that! I (once) went to the Engineering building during office hours, lurked in the hallway, peeked in his door. He was grading papers. So I didn't bother him and left. And that was it for me visiting during office hours.

logfromblammo 12y ago

If a student is struggling and does not use the available resources for catching up with the rest of the class, it may be for any of several reasons: - Asking for help is a display of weakness, and that student has been conditioned to conceal his or her weaknesses. - The student has feelings of inferiority that lead him or her to assume that they do not deserve additional assistance. - The student has given his or her last pennies to the bursar and the bookseller, is literally living in a van and gleaning the trash to meet survival needs, and is avoiding peers and professors to conceal this lifestyle. - The student has a job, and the work schedule interferes with your office hours. You don't pay them to show up, so you lose the conflict. - The student is simply unaware that such resources are available in general, or available to him or her, specifically. - The student has adopted compensation strategies to deal with an environment unsupportive of their goals. Being invisible and anonymous may be one of them. Wearing a "mask personality" in public may be another. - The student is conditioned to believe that no one offers help without expecting something in return. In some cases, accepting help is actually dangerous. (Remember how I helped you out with your rent? Good. Hide this gun for me. You owe me.) Just use your position of perceived authority, and order them to show up. If you teach an intro-level class, draw lots, and assign every one of your students to visit you during your office hours in a specific, scheduled, 10-minute window prior to midterms. This is where you actually teach the student how to interact with professors outside the classroom. With each student, talk a little about your class, and a little about anything else. Make it a pass-fail item on the syllabus. Show up? Get some free course credit. Don't show? 0 points. (If you really kick ass at this, you can play "friend matchmaker" and try to coerce your students into befriending and helping each other.) Remember, there are no classes in most public high schools on how to "do college". Those kids are learning it as they go.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Another reason: the student grew up in a rural community, and has rarely dealt with anyone they don't know and aren't related to, so are congenitally incapable of approaching a professor unintroduced.

honestcoyote 12y ago

One thing that helped me was the professor emphasizing email and the class forums on the crappy uni CMS. I know you'd probably prefer students showing up in person, but for people like me, email ensured I would stay in communication with the professor outside of class. I would feel like I was wasting the prof's time if I went to her office with a dumb question, but didn't feel the same pressure if I emailed the question. I ended up having extended conversations with the majority of my professors this way, and ultimately built relationships which made me feel comfortable about dropping in during office hours.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]