8 ms·

Pirates Use Flask, the Navy Uses Django

23 points by welder 12y ago

gregthompsonjr 12y ago
Nice. Flask bias definitely felt as o read. Not sure if you've had to deal with a big Flask code base. I'd choose Django over Flask almost all the time. But I state that without producing evidence of superiority of Django to Flask. So, I guess this post is essentially moot.
- welder 12y ago
  I'm curious, which result did you get from the worksheet?
  - gregthompsonjr 12y ago
    Actually got Django.
    - welder 12y ago
      Awesome! At least the worksheet isn't biased. I get Flask on the worksheet btw.
robertfw 12y ago
Flask is much more suited to my ideals (simple libraries over monolithic frameworks) and I started my current project out on Flask - but I ended up going back to Django out of pragmatism. My backend is a fairly simple data store accessed over a REST api, and django-rest-framework solves that use case brilliantly. The recent addition of integrated migrations sealed the deal.
- welder 12y ago
  Yep, Andrew Godwin did a good job building South and integrating it into Django. If using Flask, check out Alembic[1] for SQLAlchemy schema migrations. [1] https://alembic.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ https://alembic.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
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dgilland 12y ago
Interested in knowing what backend setup you have that allows you to scale up to 27,000+ while using Flask: 1. How many application servers are you using? 2. How much RAM, CPU cores, etc. does each application server have? 3. How many database servers? 4. Which web server are you using? 5. Which WSGI server are you using? 6. What are the configuration settings for your WSGI server (mainly the ones related to number of processes, threads, etc.) My motivation for asking was to get a sense of what it takes to serve higher traffic from a Flask API. I've yet to find a good resource that mentions what sort of web server/WSGI configuration is needed to serve high load applications that use Flask. Obviously, proper load testing is needed to really determine a reasonable setup, but I think having something ballparked from an actual production deployment could be helpful.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- welder 12y ago
  > 1. How many application servers are you using? 1 > 2. How much RAM, CPU cores, etc. does each application server have? Using an m3.large ec2 instance so 2 vCPUs and 7.5 GiB ram (https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/#m3 https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/#m3) > 3. How many database servers? 1 m3.xlarge ec2 instance running PostgreSQL with 4 vCPUs and 15GiB ram. Make sure you tune Postgres because defaults won't use all the resources available. > 4. Which web server are you using? nginx (http://nginx.com/ http://nginx.com/) My main config: https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/09c95d1be18aa50dd3fb https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/09c95d1be18aa50dd3fb My site config: https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/712ff3d39131f7fdbba2 https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/712ff3d39131f7fdbba2 > 5. Which WSGI server are you using? uWSGI (https://uwsgi-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ https://uwsgi-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/) > 6. What are the configuration settings for your WSGI server (mainly the ones related to number of processes, threads, etc.) My uWSGI site ini file (at /etc/uwsgi/enabled/wakatime.ini): https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/f495a240de3013300563 https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/f495a240de3013300563 My uWSGI main init file (at /etc/init/uwsgi.conf): https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/e57b6b6fdaf3124fe29d https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/e57b6b6fdaf3124fe29d
sirn 12y ago
>Who uses Flask? >Reddit I'm pretty sure Reddit is running Pylons.[1][2] That being said, I really wish Pyramid[1] (formerly repoze.bfg) would get a little bit more recognition in the Python web community. I particularly like Pyramid for its supports for Python 3 (even 3.2, which means it works well with PyPy3), good documentation (although sometimes a bit overwhelming) and the fact that the framework grow very well along with the app size. You can swap out or extend nearly everything in Pyramid, from renderers (Mako, Jinja, anything) to session object down to request objects, and may be even more. It's true that these features are not unique to Pyramid and dependency with Zope components scare people off, but after few years of using several frameworks (started with web.py, then Django, Pylons, Werkzeug although not exactly a framework, Flask, etc.) I've found Pyramid to have the right balance between extensibility and simplicity. It could be a single file simple application if you want, or a big guy framework with authentication policy built-in if you ever needed one. Interestingly, I got a tie between Flask and Django in the worksheet. [1]: http://www.pylonsproject.org/projects/pylons-framework/about http://www.pylonsproject.org/projects/pylons-framework/about [2]: https://github.com/reddit/reddit/search?utf8=✓&q=pylons https://github.com/reddit/reddit/search?utf8=✓&q=pylons [3]: http://www.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/about http://www.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/about
- welder 12y ago
  You're right according to https://github.com/reddit/reddit/blob/master/r2/setup.py https://github.com/reddit/reddit/blob/master/r2/setup.py
jqm 12y ago
I recently built a moderate sized project with Bottle. The application won't get many simultaneous users as it's for a single small company. The single file, no dependency setup was nice. It's similar to Flask but simpler... (in fact I think it was the inspiration for Flask if I'm not mistaken). I was even able to use Jinja2. Kind of missed Flask-Login, but Bottle had something adequate built right in. Worth a look for a small project.
wtbob 12y ago
I really hate this 'pirates are cool' meme. Pirates were vicious high seas bandits: they robbed, kidnapped, raped and murdered. Navies hunted them down (and still do today[1]). That said, after using Django for the better part of a decade, I'm all about Flask. [1] http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/antipiracy/index.html http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/antipiracy/index.html

23 points by welder 12y ago

Nice. Flask bias definitely felt as o read. Not sure if you've had to deal with a big Flask code base. I'd choose Django over Flask almost all the time. But I state that without producing evidence of superiority of Django to Flask. So, I guess this post is essentially moot.

welder 12y ago
I'm curious, which result did you get from the worksheet?
- gregthompsonjr 12y ago
  Actually got Django.
  - welder 12y ago
    Awesome! At least the worksheet isn't biased. I get Flask on the worksheet btw.

robertfw 12y ago

Flask is much more suited to my ideals (simple libraries over monolithic frameworks) and I started my current project out on Flask - but I ended up going back to Django out of pragmatism. My backend is a fairly simple data store accessed over a REST api, and django-rest-framework solves that use case brilliantly. The recent addition of integrated migrations sealed the deal.

welder 12y ago
Yep, Andrew Godwin did a good job building South and integrating it into Django. If using Flask, check out Alembic[1] for SQLAlchemy schema migrations. [1] https://alembic.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ https://alembic.readthedocs.org/en/latest/

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dgilland 12y ago

Interested in knowing what backend setup you have that allows you to scale up to 27,000+ while using Flask: 1. How many application servers are you using? 2. How much RAM, CPU cores, etc. does each application server have? 3. How many database servers? 4. Which web server are you using? 5. Which WSGI server are you using? 6. What are the configuration settings for your WSGI server (mainly the ones related to number of processes, threads, etc.) My motivation for asking was to get a sense of what it takes to serve higher traffic from a Flask API. I've yet to find a good resource that mentions what sort of web server/WSGI configuration is needed to serve high load applications that use Flask. Obviously, proper load testing is needed to really determine a reasonable setup, but I think having something ballparked from an actual production deployment could be helpful.

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welder 12y ago
> 1. How many application servers are you using? 1 > 2. How much RAM, CPU cores, etc. does each application server have? Using an m3.large ec2 instance so 2 vCPUs and 7.5 GiB ram (https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/#m3 https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/#m3) > 3. How many database servers? 1 m3.xlarge ec2 instance running PostgreSQL with 4 vCPUs and 15GiB ram. Make sure you tune Postgres because defaults won't use all the resources available. > 4. Which web server are you using? nginx (http://nginx.com/ http://nginx.com/) My main config: https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/09c95d1be18aa50dd3fb https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/09c95d1be18aa50dd3fb My site config: https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/712ff3d39131f7fdbba2 https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/712ff3d39131f7fdbba2 > 5. Which WSGI server are you using? uWSGI (https://uwsgi-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ https://uwsgi-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/) > 6. What are the configuration settings for your WSGI server (mainly the ones related to number of processes, threads, etc.) My uWSGI site ini file (at /etc/uwsgi/enabled/wakatime.ini): https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/f495a240de3013300563 https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/f495a240de3013300563 My uWSGI main init file (at /etc/init/uwsgi.conf): https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/e57b6b6fdaf3124fe29d https://gist.github.com/alanhamlett/e57b6b6fdaf3124fe29d

sirn 12y ago

>Who uses Flask? >Reddit I'm pretty sure Reddit is running Pylons.[1][2] That being said, I really wish Pyramid[1] (formerly repoze.bfg) would get a little bit more recognition in the Python web community. I particularly like Pyramid for its supports for Python 3 (even 3.2, which means it works well with PyPy3), good documentation (although sometimes a bit overwhelming) and the fact that the framework grow very well along with the app size. You can swap out or extend nearly everything in Pyramid, from renderers (Mako, Jinja, anything) to session object down to request objects, and may be even more. It's true that these features are not unique to Pyramid and dependency with Zope components scare people off, but after few years of using several frameworks (started with web.py, then Django, Pylons, Werkzeug although not exactly a framework, Flask, etc.) I've found Pyramid to have the right balance between extensibility and simplicity. It could be a single file simple application if you want, or a big guy framework with authentication policy built-in if you ever needed one. Interestingly, I got a tie between Flask and Django in the worksheet. [1]: http://www.pylonsproject.org/projects/pylons-framework/about http://www.pylonsproject.org/projects/pylons-framework/about [2]: https://github.com/reddit/reddit/search?utf8=✓&q=pylons https://github.com/reddit/reddit/search?utf8=✓&q=pylons [3]: http://www.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/about http://www.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/about

welder 12y ago
You're right according to https://github.com/reddit/reddit/blob/master/r2/setup.py https://github.com/reddit/reddit/blob/master/r2/setup.py

jqm 12y ago

I recently built a moderate sized project with Bottle. The application won't get many simultaneous users as it's for a single small company. The single file, no dependency setup was nice. It's similar to Flask but simpler... (in fact I think it was the inspiration for Flask if I'm not mistaken). I was even able to use Jinja2. Kind of missed Flask-Login, but Bottle had something adequate built right in. Worth a look for a small project.

wtbob 12y ago

I really hate this 'pirates are cool' meme. Pirates were vicious high seas bandits: they robbed, kidnapped, raped and murdered. Navies hunted them down (and still do today[1]). That said, after using Django for the better part of a decade, I'm all about Flask. [1] http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/antipiracy/index.html http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/antipiracy/index.html