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That's a good point. It's one thing to offer "unlimited data" for a fixed price - which is about ideal for a consumer, but that doesn't exist anymore. What you

That's a good point. It's one thing to offer "unlimited data" for a fixed price - which is about ideal for a consumer, but that doesn't exist anymore. What you get is a fixed amount of data for a fixed price. But the provider has an incentive to make you use as little as possible, to increase its profits. But if instead you get the data returned to you, or you pay a reasonable amount by the MB, then the provider has an incentive to make you use as much data as possible. That could mean giving you a much faster service for example.

MBlume 11y ago
Also, notice that they're not charging extra for tethering, or care how many devices you tether to. As far as they're concerned, data is data because you're paying for it.
- pluma 11y ago
  Why would they charge extra for tethering? Is that a thing in some countries?
  - wmf 11y ago
    It's a thing in the US, because "computer data" is better and more expensive than "phone data".
    - pluma 11y ago
      Amazing. How do they tell whether you're tethering, though? If you're using your own smartphone, I mean.
      - jpco 11y ago
        They don't, but on-phone software (stock iOS, as a prominent example) enforces the policy.
        pluma 11y ago
        I was furious when I bought a Nexus 7 (first version) and found out that tethering wasn't available on the device (although there was no obvious reason it shouldn't be and rooting the device would have allowed me to enable it). Running into this on stock devices seems absurd.
      - psquid 11y ago
        There's various ways: Some rely on the device itself to enforce it, but that's obviously fragile if you can bring your own device. Some check the TTL of your packets when they enter the carrier's network, because tethering is at least one more hop and so even if your computer's OS and phone's OS agree on what TTL starts at, the TTL will still be different than expected for your device's platform. Obviously this can still be mitigated by adjusting your TTL, but outside of software that'll handle this for them, that's already beyond a lot of customers. Some even take the route of only checking HTTP traffic, and detecting tethering based on User-Agent, but I think a lot have abandoned that because it doesn't catch other protocols, and is easily bypassed even on HTTP.
- wtallis 11y ago
  Won't the new FCC net neutrality rules effectively prevent tethering charges when they go into effect? Specifically, since providers will no longer be allowed to do anything to interfere with tethering, any tethering fees will be completely optional to the consumer.
yellowapple 11y ago
> It's one thing to offer "unlimited data" for a fixed price - which is about ideal for a consumer, but that doesn't exist anymore. Yes it does; both Sprint and T-Mobile offer it (alongside their respective non-unlimited plans). The fact that Google Fi doesn't despite using those two carriers as its "partners" is incredibly disappointing.
- EwanG 11y ago
  To Be Clear, they offer it, but T-Mobile will throttle your speeds after a certain number of megs. Sprint also used to do so, but apparently has stopped doing so due to a need to try to get folks to at least check them out.
  - khuey 11y ago
    T-Mobile does offer an unlimited LTE plan.
  - yellowapple 11y ago
    T-Mobile also offers an unthrottled unlimited plan. Theirs is priced a little lower than Sprint's.
- repsilat 11y ago
  If bandwidth is scarce there's always an incentive to go towards "pay for what you use" schemes, though. It's like an insurance "death spiral"[1] -- if one provider provides fixed-cost internet (or wide "bands"), the customers who use the least data will subsidise those who use the most. If another provider offers them internet at the true marginal rate, they'll move there. After they've moved on, the fixed-cost internet provider has to increase its rates, rinse and repeat. Of course, customers may prefer to be insulated in the months they use more data than usual, and moving between providers may not be free, or they may just not care at all... 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_spiral_(insurance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_spiral_(insurance)
  - yellowapple 11y ago

MBlume 11y ago

Also, notice that they're not charging extra for tethering, or care how many devices you tether to. As far as they're concerned, data is data because you're paying for it.

pluma 11y ago
Why would they charge extra for tethering? Is that a thing in some countries?
- wmf 11y ago
  It's a thing in the US, because "computer data" is better and more expensive than "phone data".
  - pluma 11y ago
    Amazing. How do they tell whether you're tethering, though? If you're using your own smartphone, I mean.
    - jpco 11y ago
      They don't, but on-phone software (stock iOS, as a prominent example) enforces the policy.
      - pluma 11y ago
        I was furious when I bought a Nexus 7 (first version) and found out that tethering wasn't available on the device (although there was no obvious reason it shouldn't be and rooting the device would have allowed me to enable it). Running into this on stock devices seems absurd.
    - psquid 11y ago
      There's various ways: Some rely on the device itself to enforce it, but that's obviously fragile if you can bring your own device. Some check the TTL of your packets when they enter the carrier's network, because tethering is at least one more hop and so even if your computer's OS and phone's OS agree on what TTL starts at, the TTL will still be different than expected for your device's platform. Obviously this can still be mitigated by adjusting your TTL, but outside of software that'll handle this for them, that's already beyond a lot of customers. Some even take the route of only checking HTTP traffic, and detecting tethering based on User-Agent, but I think a lot have abandoned that because it doesn't catch other protocols, and is easily bypassed even on HTTP.
wtallis 11y ago
Won't the new FCC net neutrality rules effectively prevent tethering charges when they go into effect? Specifically, since providers will no longer be allowed to do anything to interfere with tethering, any tethering fees will be completely optional to the consumer.

yellowapple 11y ago

> It's one thing to offer "unlimited data" for a fixed price - which is about ideal for a consumer, but that doesn't exist anymore. Yes it does; both Sprint and T-Mobile offer it (alongside their respective non-unlimited plans). The fact that Google Fi doesn't despite using those two carriers as its "partners" is incredibly disappointing.

EwanG 11y ago
To Be Clear, they offer it, but T-Mobile will throttle your speeds after a certain number of megs. Sprint also used to do so, but apparently has stopped doing so due to a need to try to get folks to at least check them out.
- khuey 11y ago
  T-Mobile does offer an unlimited LTE plan.
- yellowapple 11y ago
  T-Mobile also offers an unthrottled unlimited plan. Theirs is priced a little lower than Sprint's.
repsilat 11y ago
If bandwidth is scarce there's always an incentive to go towards "pay for what you use" schemes, though. It's like an insurance "death spiral"[1] -- if one provider provides fixed-cost internet (or wide "bands"), the customers who use the least data will subsidise those who use the most. If another provider offers them internet at the true marginal rate, they'll move there. After they've moved on, the fixed-cost internet provider has to increase its rates, rinse and repeat. Of course, customers may prefer to be insulated in the months they use more data than usual, and moving between providers may not be free, or they may just not care at all... 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_spiral_(insurance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_spiral_(insurance)
- yellowapple 11y ago