5 ms·

Scala, whose modularisation was strongly influenced by ML, already offers most of what 1ML is trying to do.

by mafribe 12y ago

kvb 12y ago
Could you justify this assertion? Here[1] is an analysis by Andreas Rossberg that indicates that this isn't the case. [1] http://stackoverflow.com/a/23019436 http://stackoverflow.com/a/23019436
- mafribe 12y ago
  I was thinking about the statement 1ML is a user-friendly surface syntax for System Fω in the paper's abstract. I think Fω lives inside Scala. But, as the stackexchange article you cite shows, I should have been more careful in my statement.
abecedarius 12y ago
Scala is complex, and SML is pretty simple. (I haven't studied 1ML beyond the elevator pitch, which claims it's "minimal and uniform".) A very complex language with a large installed base can't offer simplicity.
- cmrdporcupine 12y ago
  Even more than being complex, it is also a JVM language. That has both benefits and drawbacks. Interaction with the Java language and runtime brings complexities to it. Granted, I haven't used Scala since, err, 1.7 days? I think. I liked it, and did a lot of work in it in fact, but more as an alternative to Java. If I didn't have to worry about compatibility with Java or the proven nature of the JVM, or satisfy sysadmins and management with the orthodox Java-ness of my runtime, I'm not sure I'd pick Scala.
  - mafribe 12y ago
    I'd never have left the ML world had it not been for the lack of an ecosystem that's comparable to what the JVM has to offer. And my Scala programs mostly just use ML-like features, but I can't live without all those rich libraries that are lacking in ML.
    - tokenrove 12y ago
      Yeti is pretty nice if you have to work on the JVM: http://mth.github.io/yeti/ http://mth.github.io/yeti/
      - kristianp 12y ago
        That project looks dead, the last commit was November 2013?
        cannam 12y ago
        The last tagged release was November 2013. The last commit was this week.
    - cmrdporcupine 12y ago
      Last time I looked into OCaml it seemed to have most of everything I'd need for most projects. But I think it'd be hard to find an employer willing to pay me to work in it.

Scala, whose modularisation was strongly influenced by ML, already offers most of what 1ML is trying to do.

by mafribe 12y ago

Scala, whose modularisation was strongly influenced by ML, already offers most of what 1ML is trying to do.

kvb 12y ago

Could you justify this assertion? Here[1] is an analysis by Andreas Rossberg that indicates that this isn't the case. [1] http://stackoverflow.com/a/23019436 http://stackoverflow.com/a/23019436

mafribe 12y ago
I was thinking about the statement 1ML is a user-friendly surface syntax for System Fω in the paper's abstract. I think Fω lives inside Scala. But, as the stackexchange article you cite shows, I should have been more careful in my statement.

abecedarius 12y ago

Scala is complex, and SML is pretty simple. (I haven't studied 1ML beyond the elevator pitch, which claims it's "minimal and uniform".) A very complex language with a large installed base can't offer simplicity.

cmrdporcupine 12y ago
Even more than being complex, it is also a JVM language. That has both benefits and drawbacks. Interaction with the Java language and runtime brings complexities to it. Granted, I haven't used Scala since, err, 1.7 days? I think. I liked it, and did a lot of work in it in fact, but more as an alternative to Java. If I didn't have to worry about compatibility with Java or the proven nature of the JVM, or satisfy sysadmins and management with the orthodox Java-ness of my runtime, I'm not sure I'd pick Scala.
- mafribe 12y ago
  I'd never have left the ML world had it not been for the lack of an ecosystem that's comparable to what the JVM has to offer. And my Scala programs mostly just use ML-like features, but I can't live without all those rich libraries that are lacking in ML.
  - tokenrove 12y ago
    Yeti is pretty nice if you have to work on the JVM: http://mth.github.io/yeti/ http://mth.github.io/yeti/
    - kristianp 12y ago
      That project looks dead, the last commit was November 2013?
      - cannam 12y ago
        The last tagged release was November 2013. The last commit was this week.
  - cmrdporcupine 12y ago
    Last time I looked into OCaml it seemed to have most of everything I'd need for most projects. But I think it'd be hard to find an employer willing to pay me to work in it.