5 ms·

> it's the sysadmin's responsibility to insist on production deployments What decade are you from? No startups are hiring sysadmins to do any kind of work anym

by jetpks 11y ago

> it's the sysadmin's responsibility to insist on production deployments What decade are you from? No startups are hiring sysadmins to do any kind of work anymore. They're hiring "dev-ops" people, which seems to mean "Amateur $popularLanguage developer that deployed on AWS this one time." That's the whole problem with the dev-ops ecosystem. None of these dev-ops people seem to have any ops experience.

thaumaturgy 11y ago
> No startups are hiring sysadmins to do any kind of work anymore. Then maybe people should be willing to work for more grown-up businesses. HN tends to get a distorted view of what's important in the tech industry. The tech industry is way, way, way bigger than startups, and there are still plenty of companies that recognize the value of good sysadmins. Let the startups learn their lesson in their own time.
- dikaiosune 11y ago
  The alternative is that many of the startups don't learn this in their own time, and they go on to become bigger, more successful companies who can set the tone and shift the market. Of course, if they're actually able to succeed by doing so, then that says something too. Although the trend of many data breaches certainly wouldn't decline in that case.
  - rudolf0 11y ago
    >Although the trend of many data breaches certainly wouldn't decline in that case. Exactly. Successful and profitable are not mutually exclusive with "secure" or "well-architected". At least until those last two come to bite you later and start eating into your profits.
    - Lord_Zero 11y ago
      Sony is a great example of this.
      - jjoonathan 11y ago
        Did the PR hit actually translate into a monetary hit and eat into their profits?
        thaumaturgy 11y ago
        I don't know about the cost of the negative PR, but the compromise itself cost them $15 million in real costs (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-sony-hack-cost-20150204-story.html http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-c...) and potentially much more (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/09/us-sony-cybersecurity-costs-idUSKBN0JN2L020141209 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/09/us-sony-cybersecur...) once you count the downtime involved and potential lawsuits, settlements, and other fallout over the breach of information. IIRC there were some embarrassing emails released regarding some Hollywood big-wigs, for example. It should be a huge cautionary tale for any big organization that doesn't have good internal security, but unfortunately this isn't the first such case in history, and it almost certainly won't be the last. But that doesn't mean there aren't other smart businesses out there.
        _yosefk 11y ago
        $15M sounds like a rounding error for Sony. It sounds like a rounding error as well when compared to the cost of brand-name IT solutions when deployed in a company of Sony's size.
skywhopper 11y ago
Well, like I said, in this case, "it's a failure of the company".
ascendantlogic 11y ago
> That's the whole problem with the dev-ops ecosystem. None of these dev-ops people seem to have any ops experience. Thanks for painting all of us that do "devops" with a wide brush. If you're a dev shall we enumerate all of the XSS and SQL injection holes you've added to products over your career?
- SFjulie1 11y ago
  well, XSS and SQL injection comes from my experience from "devops" kind of developer, claiming to code without wishing to learn the basics (complexity, DB, ....). So well, tried, but troll does not work. And startup are made by "devops" kind of business men that don't care about computing correctly cost vs price because it is so XXth century.
  - ascendantlogic 11y ago
    You're absolutely right, about everyone in the industry. How did you become so astute with your observations?
danudey 11y ago
While I think that devops can be a useful term, lately most people take it to mean 'I'm a rails developer but I know how to use docker and the aws control panel'.

by jetpks 11y ago

thaumaturgy 11y ago

> No startups are hiring sysadmins to do any kind of work anymore. Then maybe people should be willing to work for more grown-up businesses. HN tends to get a distorted view of what's important in the tech industry. The tech industry is way, way, way bigger than startups, and there are still plenty of companies that recognize the value of good sysadmins. Let the startups learn their lesson in their own time.

dikaiosune 11y ago
The alternative is that many of the startups don't learn this in their own time, and they go on to become bigger, more successful companies who can set the tone and shift the market. Of course, if they're actually able to succeed by doing so, then that says something too. Although the trend of many data breaches certainly wouldn't decline in that case.
- rudolf0 11y ago
  >Although the trend of many data breaches certainly wouldn't decline in that case. Exactly. Successful and profitable are not mutually exclusive with "secure" or "well-architected". At least until those last two come to bite you later and start eating into your profits.
  - Lord_Zero 11y ago
    Sony is a great example of this.
    - jjoonathan 11y ago
      Did the PR hit actually translate into a monetary hit and eat into their profits?
      - thaumaturgy 11y ago
        I don't know about the cost of the negative PR, but the compromise itself cost them $15 million in real costs (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-sony-hack-cost-20150204-story.html http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-c...) and potentially much more (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/09/us-sony-cybersecurity-costs-idUSKBN0JN2L020141209 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/09/us-sony-cybersecur...) once you count the downtime involved and potential lawsuits, settlements, and other fallout over the breach of information. IIRC there were some embarrassing emails released regarding some Hollywood big-wigs, for example. It should be a huge cautionary tale for any big organization that doesn't have good internal security, but unfortunately this isn't the first such case in history, and it almost certainly won't be the last. But that doesn't mean there aren't other smart businesses out there.
        _yosefk 11y ago
        $15M sounds like a rounding error for Sony. It sounds like a rounding error as well when compared to the cost of brand-name IT solutions when deployed in a company of Sony's size.

skywhopper 11y ago

Well, like I said, in this case, "it's a failure of the company".

ascendantlogic 11y ago

> That's the whole problem with the dev-ops ecosystem. None of these dev-ops people seem to have any ops experience. Thanks for painting all of us that do "devops" with a wide brush. If you're a dev shall we enumerate all of the XSS and SQL injection holes you've added to products over your career?

SFjulie1 11y ago
well, XSS and SQL injection comes from my experience from "devops" kind of developer, claiming to code without wishing to learn the basics (complexity, DB, ....). So well, tried, but troll does not work. And startup are made by "devops" kind of business men that don't care about computing correctly cost vs price because it is so XXth century.
- ascendantlogic 11y ago
  You're absolutely right, about everyone in the industry. How did you become so astute with your observations?

danudey 11y ago

While I think that devops can be a useful term, lately most people take it to mean 'I'm a rails developer but I know how to use docker and the aws control panel'.