5 ms·

This sounds like the South Park strawman of vegetarianism and its advocates.

VLM 12y ago
Oh no! Exactly the point I was not trying to make! The problem being everyone has had a runoff with the small proportion of non-civilized advocates, leading to fear / awkwardness / uncomfortable feeling with the majority of civilized participants. And the culture doesn't self police strongly enough to keep the non-civilized fraction under control. No one wants to sit thru a lecture of "my self denial makes me superior" "I'm morally superior" "meat is murder" "hey wanna see some slaughterhouse pixs" "hey look at me this is my special snowflake reason" "I'm saving the planet, all by myself". OPs question of why vegetarians are looked at like space aliens is because its impossible to predict if the next couple minutes are going to be agony or fun. Probably gonna be all right, but... (edited to add, come on guys, cut it out with the world doesn't exist stuff, my very own sister pulled the "hey look at me this is my special snowflake reason" for a couple months when she was about 14... now stand by for a round of "well I'm not sure sisters exist in the real world, after all I only have brothers and my buddy is an only child so citation needed...") (And slayed0 is a better writer than I am...)
- Luc 12y ago
  Are you trolling man? Trolling's not cool, you know.
- RodericDay 12y ago
  Have they really? In my experience prying into people retelling this story, the whole vegetarian zealot thing is one of those moral panic things that everyone claims to have had run-ins with but really most people are just citing the one main caricature. I've certainly seen way, way more people say "I'll eat two steaks for every sanctimonious vegetarian I engage with" than actual vegetarians, particularly after becoming an engineer.
- have_humility 12y ago
  > The problem being everyone has had a runoff with the small proportion of non-civilized advocates Everyone, apparently, except for me. Yet despite the dearth of obnoxious advocates, I have run into dozens or more who complain about their existence. I think the obnoxious advocate trope is just a trope, and I'm convinced the the vast majority of complainers are complaining about the idea of a reification of the trope or something they've seen on television, rather than any actual live instances of the trope they've had run-ins with.
beat 12y ago
Interestingly, I was listening to a vegan friend complaining about exactly that this week - that he finds the vegan community itself nearly insufferable due to smugness and proselytizing. He's vegan for religious reasons, but doesn't want to impose his faith on anyone else and doesn't feel it makes him superior. Sadly, not true of many vegans. My daughter, a budding chef and foodie with many vegan friends, gets a lot of grief over it too. For her part, she's trying to get the vegans to eat decent food, as most of the ones she knows eat what she calls "vegan junk food" - factory products rather than actual cooking of fresh ingredients.
- RodericDay 12y ago
  so vegans are smug and proselytizing, and your non-vegan daughter goes around calling what they eat junk food, trying to get them to switch diets. interesting.
  - beat 12y ago
    I don't think you understand. She tries to teach them to cook good vegan food. She totally respects their choice to be vegan. She worries that they're eating factory food from a box rather than something more natural and healthier. She would never, ever try to make a vegan break their veganism. She will make them food that is tastier and more nutritious than what they normally eat, but is still vegan.
    - RodericDay 12y ago
      I don't think you understand. She is trying to get them to eat something different (proselytizing), for reasons that she believes are important and true, even though they don't currently agree with her themselves (smug). Sounds a lot like ethical vegans to me.
      - beat 12y ago
        It's one thing to try to make people better at their own diet, and another thing to try to make them choose another diet. Not all help is proselytizing. There's a TREMENDOUS difference between "I understand you're a vegan, here's some homemade lentil stew that's better for you than the potato chips you're eating", and "You are a filthy murderer for eating that burger!", or "You're a stupid pansy who needs to eat a burger!" If you can't understand that distinction...
slayed0 12y ago
His/her point is that the strawman is self inflicted. There is a silent majority that inherits the stigma of the crazed minority. Of course not all vegetarians are like this, but the few who are give a bad name to the rest.

VLM 12y ago

Oh no! Exactly the point I was not trying to make! The problem being everyone has had a runoff with the small proportion of non-civilized advocates, leading to fear / awkwardness / uncomfortable feeling with the majority of civilized participants. And the culture doesn't self police strongly enough to keep the non-civilized fraction under control. No one wants to sit thru a lecture of "my self denial makes me superior" "I'm morally superior" "meat is murder" "hey wanna see some slaughterhouse pixs" "hey look at me this is my special snowflake reason" "I'm saving the planet, all by myself". OPs question of why vegetarians are looked at like space aliens is because its impossible to predict if the next couple minutes are going to be agony or fun. Probably gonna be all right, but... (edited to add, come on guys, cut it out with the world doesn't exist stuff, my very own sister pulled the "hey look at me this is my special snowflake reason" for a couple months when she was about 14... now stand by for a round of "well I'm not sure sisters exist in the real world, after all I only have brothers and my buddy is an only child so citation needed...") (And slayed0 is a better writer than I am...)

Luc 12y ago
Are you trolling man? Trolling's not cool, you know.
RodericDay 12y ago
Have they really? In my experience prying into people retelling this story, the whole vegetarian zealot thing is one of those moral panic things that everyone claims to have had run-ins with but really most people are just citing the one main caricature. I've certainly seen way, way more people say "I'll eat two steaks for every sanctimonious vegetarian I engage with" than actual vegetarians, particularly after becoming an engineer.
have_humility 12y ago
> The problem being everyone has had a runoff with the small proportion of non-civilized advocates Everyone, apparently, except for me. Yet despite the dearth of obnoxious advocates, I have run into dozens or more who complain about their existence. I think the obnoxious advocate trope is just a trope, and I'm convinced the the vast majority of complainers are complaining about the idea of a reification of the trope or something they've seen on television, rather than any actual live instances of the trope they've had run-ins with.

beat 12y ago

Interestingly, I was listening to a vegan friend complaining about exactly that this week - that he finds the vegan community itself nearly insufferable due to smugness and proselytizing. He's vegan for religious reasons, but doesn't want to impose his faith on anyone else and doesn't feel it makes him superior. Sadly, not true of many vegans. My daughter, a budding chef and foodie with many vegan friends, gets a lot of grief over it too. For her part, she's trying to get the vegans to eat decent food, as most of the ones she knows eat what she calls "vegan junk food" - factory products rather than actual cooking of fresh ingredients.

RodericDay 12y ago
so vegans are smug and proselytizing, and your non-vegan daughter goes around calling what they eat junk food, trying to get them to switch diets. interesting.
- beat 12y ago
  I don't think you understand. She tries to teach them to cook good vegan food. She totally respects their choice to be vegan. She worries that they're eating factory food from a box rather than something more natural and healthier. She would never, ever try to make a vegan break their veganism. She will make them food that is tastier and more nutritious than what they normally eat, but is still vegan.
  - RodericDay 12y ago
    I don't think you understand. She is trying to get them to eat something different (proselytizing), for reasons that she believes are important and true, even though they don't currently agree with her themselves (smug). Sounds a lot like ethical vegans to me.
    - beat 12y ago
      It's one thing to try to make people better at their own diet, and another thing to try to make them choose another diet. Not all help is proselytizing. There's a TREMENDOUS difference between "I understand you're a vegan, here's some homemade lentil stew that's better for you than the potato chips you're eating", and "You are a filthy murderer for eating that burger!", or "You're a stupid pansy who needs to eat a burger!" If you can't understand that distinction...

slayed0 12y ago

His/her point is that the strawman is self inflicted. There is a silent majority that inherits the stigma of the crazed minority. Of course not all vegetarians are like this, but the few who are give a bad name to the rest.