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The way the US society discourages vegetarianism (even for people who a traditionally vegetarian) is mind boggling. When you ask for a vegetarian option, one wo

by sremani 12y ago

The way the US society discourages vegetarianism (even for people who a traditionally vegetarian) is mind boggling. When you ask for a vegetarian option, one would be lucky if he does not get stared like a space alien, esp. in the country.

jasonisalive 12y ago
Try veganism, it's life on Hard Mode.
- nate_meurer 12y ago
  Oh, it's not that bad :) I would call it "very deliberate mode".
  - jasonisalive 12y ago
    Tried travelling in a third-world country where you don't speak the language?
fweespeech 12y ago
My gf is a vegetarian and she has never had that problem...? We do live in a big city tho.
fennecfoxen 12y ago
Eh. Blame the FDR administration: the US's institutionalized focus on standardization, commoditization, and industrialized processing above all other facets of agriculture (like nutrition and taste) has left us with a glut of bland vegetables that no one really wants to eat.
ElijahLynn 12y ago
This is starting to change but yeah, it is saddening how many people think you need meat to survive and grow. Bill Gates left his intelligence behind on this one. All protein on this planet was created by plants via photosynthesis.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  You are leaving off exotic bacteria (extremophiles) and ignoring or papering over the fact that animals can synthesize amino acids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid_synthesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid_synthesis The great majority of energy in the biosphere is certainly captured by way of photosynthesis, but it is silly to complain about an oversimplification and then turn around and make one.
  - astazangasta 12y ago
    Amino acid "synthesis" in animals works by ripping apart existing amino acids and sticking on new side chains. Animals cannot create an amino acid from nothing. To do this requires fixing nitrogen, which can only be done by certain bacteria, plants that have a symbiotic relationship with them, or the industrial Haber process for making ammonia.
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      Yeah, I wish I had thought to mention how much industrial nitrogen ends up in our food. I guess you could twist that around and say that it is produced using photosynthesis that was captured in the natural gas that is used, but I don't think the poster meant readers to unpack all that out of 'created by plants'.
- slayed0 12y ago
  Yes, (most) protein on this planet was created by plants, but not all protein is equal. Most proteins from plants are not complete proteins and cannot sustain a human being. This is not true of animal protein. Yes you can combine various plant proteins together to form complete proteins, but the answer is not as simple as: just eat plants.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Most proteins from plants are not complete proteins and cannot sustain a human being. There are many individual plant protein sources that are not complete proteins, and some of the ones that provide complete proteins provide a low ratio of protein to other macronutrients and may not, for that reason, be suitable alone as a primary protein source. But there are plants that individually supply complete protein without this problem, and more importantly there are well-known and combinations of plant protein sources that do this -- they are often the staple foods of various cultures, since in pre-modern times very most agriculture societies didn't produce meat in sufficient quantities for it to be the main protein source, so if adequate plant sources didn't exist, neither would civilization. (That being said, the heavy focus on soy in the market means there aren't as many convenient options meat-avoiding, soy-allergic/intolerant people as for either meat eaters or soy-tolerant folks.)
VLM 12y ago
Culturally people who are vegetarians in practice just ask for a salad or whatever and are good with it. The public self identifier of vegetarian has been stolen by folks who engage in intense proselytizing. So culturally people don't know how to react to people who self identify as vegetarians... are they "cool" in which case they can play it cool and friendly in response, or is the slogan shouting and poster waving about to start in which case they might have to contact security ... so it creates that awkwardness you mention. Some folks tolerate or support the proselytizing, maybe because they like watching the world burn, who knows. By analogy, imagine if it was "normal" culturally if when a non-member is at a church for a friends wedding or whatever for that non-member to break out into a string of religious slurs about the members and attempt aggressive recruitment into the non-members religion. You can totally imagine in a society like that, if you're in a catholic church and tell people you're an evang, they'll recoil in horror and start worrying if security will need to evict you. Because most people act a little more civilized in church, most of the time no one freaks out when they discover a non-member attends.
- RodericDay 12y ago
  This sounds like the South Park strawman of vegetarianism and its advocates.
  - VLM 12y ago
    Oh no! Exactly the point I was not trying to make! The problem being everyone has had a runoff with the small proportion of non-civilized advocates, leading to fear / awkwardness / uncomfortable feeling with the majority of civilized participants. And the culture doesn't self police strongly enough to keep the non-civilized fraction under control. No one wants to sit thru a lecture of "my self denial makes me superior" "I'm morally superior" "meat is murder" "hey wanna see some slaughterhouse pixs" "hey look at me this is my special snowflake reason" "I'm saving the planet, all by myself". OPs question of why vegetarians are looked at like space aliens is because its impossible to predict if the next couple minutes are going to be agony or fun. Probably gonna be all right, but... (edited to add, come on guys, cut it out with the world doesn't exist stuff, my very own sister pulled the "hey look at me this is my special snowflake reason" for a couple months when she was about 14... now stand by for a round of "well I'm not sure sisters exist in the real world, after all I only have brothers and my buddy is an only child so citation needed...") (And slayed0 is a better writer than I am...)
ocfx 12y ago
As someone who lives near the coast in Southern California we have lots of vegetarian and vegan options.
beat 12y ago
It depends on where you live, what the food culture is like. I live in Minneapolis, one of the best places in the world to eat. Excellent vegetarian options are widely available here. Sure, there are restaurants where that's not good, but it's not like there aren't plenty of other restaurants.

by sremani 12y ago

jasonisalive 12y ago

Try veganism, it's life on Hard Mode.

nate_meurer 12y ago
Oh, it's not that bad :) I would call it "very deliberate mode".
- jasonisalive 12y ago
  Tried travelling in a third-world country where you don't speak the language?

fweespeech 12y ago

My gf is a vegetarian and she has never had that problem...? We do live in a big city tho.

fennecfoxen 12y ago

Eh. Blame the FDR administration: the US's institutionalized focus on standardization, commoditization, and industrialized processing above all other facets of agriculture (like nutrition and taste) has left us with a glut of bland vegetables that no one really wants to eat.

ElijahLynn 12y ago

This is starting to change but yeah, it is saddening how many people think you need meat to survive and grow. Bill Gates left his intelligence behind on this one. All protein on this planet was created by plants via photosynthesis.

maxerickson 12y ago
You are leaving off exotic bacteria (extremophiles) and ignoring or papering over the fact that animals can synthesize amino acids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid_synthesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid_synthesis The great majority of energy in the biosphere is certainly captured by way of photosynthesis, but it is silly to complain about an oversimplification and then turn around and make one.
- astazangasta 12y ago
  Amino acid "synthesis" in animals works by ripping apart existing amino acids and sticking on new side chains. Animals cannot create an amino acid from nothing. To do this requires fixing nitrogen, which can only be done by certain bacteria, plants that have a symbiotic relationship with them, or the industrial Haber process for making ammonia.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    Yeah, I wish I had thought to mention how much industrial nitrogen ends up in our food. I guess you could twist that around and say that it is produced using photosynthesis that was captured in the natural gas that is used, but I don't think the poster meant readers to unpack all that out of 'created by plants'.
slayed0 12y ago
Yes, (most) protein on this planet was created by plants, but not all protein is equal. Most proteins from plants are not complete proteins and cannot sustain a human being. This is not true of animal protein. Yes you can combine various plant proteins together to form complete proteins, but the answer is not as simple as: just eat plants.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Most proteins from plants are not complete proteins and cannot sustain a human being. There are many individual plant protein sources that are not complete proteins, and some of the ones that provide complete proteins provide a low ratio of protein to other macronutrients and may not, for that reason, be suitable alone as a primary protein source. But there are plants that individually supply complete protein without this problem, and more importantly there are well-known and combinations of plant protein sources that do this -- they are often the staple foods of various cultures, since in pre-modern times very most agriculture societies didn't produce meat in sufficient quantities for it to be the main protein source, so if adequate plant sources didn't exist, neither would civilization. (That being said, the heavy focus on soy in the market means there aren't as many convenient options meat-avoiding, soy-allergic/intolerant people as for either meat eaters or soy-tolerant folks.)

VLM 12y ago

Culturally people who are vegetarians in practice just ask for a salad or whatever and are good with it. The public self identifier of vegetarian has been stolen by folks who engage in intense proselytizing. So culturally people don't know how to react to people who self identify as vegetarians... are they "cool" in which case they can play it cool and friendly in response, or is the slogan shouting and poster waving about to start in which case they might have to contact security ... so it creates that awkwardness you mention. Some folks tolerate or support the proselytizing, maybe because they like watching the world burn, who knows. By analogy, imagine if it was "normal" culturally if when a non-member is at a church for a friends wedding or whatever for that non-member to break out into a string of religious slurs about the members and attempt aggressive recruitment into the non-members religion. You can totally imagine in a society like that, if you're in a catholic church and tell people you're an evang, they'll recoil in horror and start worrying if security will need to evict you. Because most people act a little more civilized in church, most of the time no one freaks out when they discover a non-member attends.

RodericDay 12y ago
This sounds like the South Park strawman of vegetarianism and its advocates.
- VLM 12y ago
  Oh no! Exactly the point I was not trying to make! The problem being everyone has had a runoff with the small proportion of non-civilized advocates, leading to fear / awkwardness / uncomfortable feeling with the majority of civilized participants. And the culture doesn't self police strongly enough to keep the non-civilized fraction under control. No one wants to sit thru a lecture of "my self denial makes me superior" "I'm morally superior" "meat is murder" "hey wanna see some slaughterhouse pixs" "hey look at me this is my special snowflake reason" "I'm saving the planet, all by myself". OPs question of why vegetarians are looked at like space aliens is because its impossible to predict if the next couple minutes are going to be agony or fun. Probably gonna be all right, but... (edited to add, come on guys, cut it out with the world doesn't exist stuff, my very own sister pulled the "hey look at me this is my special snowflake reason" for a couple months when she was about 14... now stand by for a round of "well I'm not sure sisters exist in the real world, after all I only have brothers and my buddy is an only child so citation needed...") (And slayed0 is a better writer than I am...)

ocfx 12y ago

As someone who lives near the coast in Southern California we have lots of vegetarian and vegan options.

beat 12y ago

It depends on where you live, what the food culture is like. I live in Minneapolis, one of the best places in the world to eat. Excellent vegetarian options are widely available here. Sure, there are restaurants where that's not good, but it's not like there aren't plenty of other restaurants.