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Sky also add a number to the screen to help inspectors or to shut down streaming http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Archived-Discussions/Strange-9-digit-number-appeari

Sky also add a number to the screen to help inspectors or to shut down streaming http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Archived-Discussions/Strange-9-digit-number-appearing-on-screen/td-p/5559 http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Archived-Discussions/Strange-9-d...

mootothemax 11y ago
Sky also add a number to the screen to help inspectors or to shut down streaming I believe this is mostly to stop streaming. For years and years, Sky have had issues with people buying multiple subscriptions to their sports packages, connecting the receivers to a bunch of servers, and then reselling access on commercial streaming sites! The big difficulty they've then had is identifying who's behind the streaming site, and at the least, shutting down their stream. The fun part is that - judging by the number of sites that remained in operation for a good chunk of time - it does appear possible to operate an essentially anonymous business on the internet.
- christop 11y ago
  I wonder how this is supposed to help Sky identify who the source is — it's a satellite broadcast, so they presumably can't overlay a different number on the screen for different subscribers?
  - sveiss 11y ago
    Multiple channels displaying different codes, targeted to different groups of receivers. Even with only two channels, I expect you could binary search it down to a single receiver over the course of a single season of matches.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Could you just program the receiver to overlay the numbers after receiving the unadulterated video from the satellite?
      - mootothemax 11y ago
        Could you just program the receiver to overlay the numbers after receiving the unadulterated video from the satellite? I've been informed that some streaming services simply cut off the side of the screen where the Sky logo starts to appear.
        sveiss 11y ago
        Heh. Simple solutions! I wonder if they also use something like Digimarc for a non-visible watermark? They could publicly credit the visible watermark as a distraction from the real technique.
        mikeash 11y ago
        That was actually my first thought when I saw the screenshot with the numbers near the top of the screen. Slice that part off, stream the rest. A similar thing shows up on YouTube a lot, actually. People heavily crop uploads of copyrighted material to get around their content identification stuff.
      - sveiss 11y ago
        You could, but modifying the receiver firmware then becomes an attractive target. A Sky STB is just an embedded Linux device, after all. Doing the overlay in the smartcard would make it a harder target, if the smartcard has the processing power to do it.
        mikeash 11y ago
        If one were so inclined, I imagine it could be done with dedicated hardware specifically made for generating the overlay. May not be worth the cost though.
        jamesbrownuhh 11y ago
        The smart card has nothing like the power required to process video - but it doesn't need to. The Sky receivers are fortified sufficiently to make changing the firmware a distinctly non-trivial operation.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - ibmthrowaway218 11y ago
    The number isn't in the broadcast signal, it's overlaid by the decoding box. It's going to be a number tied to the unique viewing card number (which is tied uniquely to a subscriber).
    - christop 11y ago
      Ah, that makes more sense, thanks. I wonder how easily the firmware can be downgraded (or downgraded) to remove that behaviour. Though as noted in the sibling thread, it's more likely easier to crop the video output.
      - theintern 11y ago
        It'd probably be much easier to just blur the area of the image where they put it to be honest, I've seen this on streams before, they just blur the bottom corner where the number would show up.
        jamesbrownuhh 11y ago
        Although the position of the number is (obviously) under the control of the platform operator, so could appear anywhere, for any amount of time, if they were so minded. I wouldn't like to bet against the number appearing right in the centre of the screen for a fraction of a second, if there were any particularly high-value programming being illegally streamed.
      - jamesbrownuhh 11y ago
        Distinctly non-trivial. The receiver software is cryptographically signed and is heavily integrated with the conditional access system securing the underlying broadcast. I'm only aware of one time that a legitimate box was encouraged to run a lightly-patched version of the software, and that involved a JTAG-type attack on a specific model of set top box. I believe that lesson has been learned in current models.
        kuschku 11y ago
muyuu 11y ago
I like it how they say "it will not affect your viewing experience in any way" - well, except you have a 9 digit number on your screen.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  I'll give them this, it is pretty subtle: https://i.imgur.com/v2wssw2.jpg https://i.imgur.com/v2wssw2.jpg
  - amolgupta 11y ago
    I have seen really disturbing versions of this. mostly on Ten Sports
hackerboos 11y ago
Well since cardsharing came prevalent it's easier than ever to get Sky illegally. They shut down HD recently by messing with the ECM timing. Now most illegally suppliers have switched to IPTV.

mootothemax 11y ago

Sky also add a number to the screen to help inspectors or to shut down streaming I believe this is mostly to stop streaming. For years and years, Sky have had issues with people buying multiple subscriptions to their sports packages, connecting the receivers to a bunch of servers, and then reselling access on commercial streaming sites! The big difficulty they've then had is identifying who's behind the streaming site, and at the least, shutting down their stream. The fun part is that - judging by the number of sites that remained in operation for a good chunk of time - it does appear possible to operate an essentially anonymous business on the internet.

christop 11y ago
I wonder how this is supposed to help Sky identify who the source is — it's a satellite broadcast, so they presumably can't overlay a different number on the screen for different subscribers?
- sveiss 11y ago
  Multiple channels displaying different codes, targeted to different groups of receivers. Even with only two channels, I expect you could binary search it down to a single receiver over the course of a single season of matches.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    Could you just program the receiver to overlay the numbers after receiving the unadulterated video from the satellite?
    - mootothemax 11y ago
      Could you just program the receiver to overlay the numbers after receiving the unadulterated video from the satellite? I've been informed that some streaming services simply cut off the side of the screen where the Sky logo starts to appear.
      - sveiss 11y ago
        Heh. Simple solutions! I wonder if they also use something like Digimarc for a non-visible watermark? They could publicly credit the visible watermark as a distraction from the real technique.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        That was actually my first thought when I saw the screenshot with the numbers near the top of the screen. Slice that part off, stream the rest. A similar thing shows up on YouTube a lot, actually. People heavily crop uploads of copyrighted material to get around their content identification stuff.
    - sveiss 11y ago
      You could, but modifying the receiver firmware then becomes an attractive target. A Sky STB is just an embedded Linux device, after all. Doing the overlay in the smartcard would make it a harder target, if the smartcard has the processing power to do it.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        If one were so inclined, I imagine it could be done with dedicated hardware specifically made for generating the overlay. May not be worth the cost though.
      - jamesbrownuhh 11y ago
        The smart card has nothing like the power required to process video - but it doesn't need to. The Sky receivers are fortified sufficiently to make changing the firmware a distinctly non-trivial operation.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- ibmthrowaway218 11y ago
  The number isn't in the broadcast signal, it's overlaid by the decoding box. It's going to be a number tied to the unique viewing card number (which is tied uniquely to a subscriber).
  - christop 11y ago
    Ah, that makes more sense, thanks. I wonder how easily the firmware can be downgraded (or downgraded) to remove that behaviour. Though as noted in the sibling thread, it's more likely easier to crop the video output.
    - theintern 11y ago
      It'd probably be much easier to just blur the area of the image where they put it to be honest, I've seen this on streams before, they just blur the bottom corner where the number would show up.
      - jamesbrownuhh 11y ago
        Although the position of the number is (obviously) under the control of the platform operator, so could appear anywhere, for any amount of time, if they were so minded. I wouldn't like to bet against the number appearing right in the centre of the screen for a fraction of a second, if there were any particularly high-value programming being illegally streamed.
    - jamesbrownuhh 11y ago
      Distinctly non-trivial. The receiver software is cryptographically signed and is heavily integrated with the conditional access system securing the underlying broadcast. I'm only aware of one time that a legitimate box was encouraged to run a lightly-patched version of the software, and that involved a JTAG-type attack on a specific model of set top box. I believe that lesson has been learned in current models.
      - kuschku 11y ago

muyuu 11y ago

I like it how they say "it will not affect your viewing experience in any way" - well, except you have a 9 digit number on your screen.

Someone1234 11y ago
I'll give them this, it is pretty subtle: https://i.imgur.com/v2wssw2.jpg https://i.imgur.com/v2wssw2.jpg
- amolgupta 11y ago
  I have seen really disturbing versions of this. mostly on Ten Sports

hackerboos 11y ago

Well since cardsharing came prevalent it's easier than ever to get Sky illegally. They shut down HD recently by messing with the ECM timing. Now most illegally suppliers have switched to IPTV.