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> What's not to like ? Program startup times and JVM stacktraces, for one. Nevertheless I am just getting started with Clojure and really like what I am seei

> What's not to like ? Program startup times and JVM stacktraces, for one. Nevertheless I am just getting started with Clojure and really like what I am seeing so far.

codeshaman 11y ago
Yes, that question had a little bit of salt in it as well. The startup times are one of the things, tooling isn't quite there yet (although getting better and better). And I have an allergy to the JVM/Java, but am willing to live with it because of the language. Clojure at C/C++ speed would be a true wonder.
- siscia 11y ago
  Actually clojure is been designed to be hosted, it should not be difficult to build a clojure (dialect) that compile into a system language... Well of course it is difficult in the absolute meaning, but not so difficult... When I was younger I tried to figured out every single interface that clojure use, and there weren't too much... Some figure here[1] It would be a really interesting summer project... [1]: http://siscia.github.io/2013/11/28/visualize-hierarchy-behind-java-class/ http://siscia.github.io/2013/11/28/visualize-hierarchy-behin...
  - yogthos 11y ago
    There's a LLVM Clojure dialect called Pixie https://github.com/pixie-lang/pixie https://github.com/pixie-lang/pixie that has extremely fast startup
yogthos 11y ago
The idea is that you do most of your work using a REPL. The typical workflow for Clojure is to start the app once and work with it interactively. Clojure editors have tight integration with the REPL, so you can send any code from the editor to be evaluated in the context of the running application image. While stacktraces are long, the relevant information tends to be easy to identify. In most cases you just look for a the first occurrence of a namespace from your project and trace from there. There also tools for making reading stack traces easier such as https://github.com/venantius/ultra https://github.com/venantius/ultra and https://github.com/magnars/prone https://github.com/magnars/prone

> What's not to like ? Program startup times and JVM stacktraces, for one. Nevertheless I am just getting started with Clojure and really like what I am seeing so far.

codeshaman 11y ago

Yes, that question had a little bit of salt in it as well. The startup times are one of the things, tooling isn't quite there yet (although getting better and better). And I have an allergy to the JVM/Java, but am willing to live with it because of the language. Clojure at C/C++ speed would be a true wonder.

siscia 11y ago
Actually clojure is been designed to be hosted, it should not be difficult to build a clojure (dialect) that compile into a system language... Well of course it is difficult in the absolute meaning, but not so difficult... When I was younger I tried to figured out every single interface that clojure use, and there weren't too much... Some figure here[1] It would be a really interesting summer project... [1]: http://siscia.github.io/2013/11/28/visualize-hierarchy-behind-java-class/ http://siscia.github.io/2013/11/28/visualize-hierarchy-behin...
- yogthos 11y ago
  There's a LLVM Clojure dialect called Pixie https://github.com/pixie-lang/pixie https://github.com/pixie-lang/pixie that has extremely fast startup

yogthos 11y ago

The idea is that you do most of your work using a REPL. The typical workflow for Clojure is to start the app once and work with it interactively. Clojure editors have tight integration with the REPL, so you can send any code from the editor to be evaluated in the context of the running application image. While stacktraces are long, the relevant information tends to be easy to identify. In most cases you just look for a the first occurrence of a namespace from your project and trace from there. There also tools for making reading stack traces easier such as https://github.com/venantius/ultra https://github.com/venantius/ultra and https://github.com/magnars/prone https://github.com/magnars/prone