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This was my initial thought too, but I had another! How feasible is it that the majority of households could have a massive home-battery installed in terms of

This was my initial thought too, but I had another! How feasible is it that the majority of households could have a massive home-battery installed in terms of natural resources? It seems like a lot of rare earth materials to build so many big batteries.

NickM 12y ago
It seems like a lot of rare earth materials to build so many big batteries. Lithium-ion cells actually don't necessarily require any rare earth metals at all. For instance, the batteries Tesla currently uses for their cars are made up of lithium, nickel, cobalt, aluminum, and carbon, none of which qualify as rare earth elements.
TheSpiceIsLife 12y ago
Lithium isn't considered a rare earth element, although it is relatively rare compared to, say, lead. From Wikipedia: However, according to a 2011 study conducted at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and the University of California Berkeley, the currently estimated reserve base of lithium should not be a limiting factor for large-scale battery production for electric vehicles, as the study estimated that on the order of 1 billion 40 kWh Li-based batteries could be built with current reserves.[85] Another 2011 study by researchers from the University of Michigan and Ford Motor Company found that there are sufficient lithium resources to support global demand until 2100, including the lithium required for the potential widespread use of hybrid electric, plug-in hybrid electric and battery electric vehicles. The study estimated global lithium reserves at 39 million tons, and total demand for lithium during the 90-year period analyzed at 12–20 million tons, depending on the scenarios regarding economic growth and recycling rates.[1] Of course, lithium isn't the only element we can use to make batteries. Note, I'm not making a claim one way or the other on the feasibility, just stating that resources don't appear to be a limiting factor for the next ~life-time. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium
ghshephard 12y ago
Here is your feasibility for using batteries in just cars: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/ http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/ There's a lot of lithium, but it's unlikely there is enough Lithium in the world to provide everyone with large home batteries.
- jimmcslim 12y ago
  Other commenters disagree with this... but to pull in a concept from other stories on HN, I wonder if any near-Earth asteroids are rich in lithium?
- lerouxb 12y ago
  There is a LOT of lithium in the world and that's just near the surface - you can always dig down. But at that scale you don't have to use lithium anyway. When it comes to grid or off-grid storage, you don't need the best energy density as cost per watt-hour is probably the most important factor and there are already other chemistries on the market that will work just fine with many more on the way. Sodium or Aluminium based batteries seem particularly promising.

NickM 12y ago

It seems like a lot of rare earth materials to build so many big batteries. Lithium-ion cells actually don't necessarily require any rare earth metals at all. For instance, the batteries Tesla currently uses for their cars are made up of lithium, nickel, cobalt, aluminum, and carbon, none of which qualify as rare earth elements.

TheSpiceIsLife 12y ago

Lithium isn't considered a rare earth element, although it is relatively rare compared to, say, lead. From Wikipedia: However, according to a 2011 study conducted at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and the University of California Berkeley, the currently estimated reserve base of lithium should not be a limiting factor for large-scale battery production for electric vehicles, as the study estimated that on the order of 1 billion 40 kWh Li-based batteries could be built with current reserves.[85] Another 2011 study by researchers from the University of Michigan and Ford Motor Company found that there are sufficient lithium resources to support global demand until 2100, including the lithium required for the potential widespread use of hybrid electric, plug-in hybrid electric and battery electric vehicles. The study estimated global lithium reserves at 39 million tons, and total demand for lithium during the 90-year period analyzed at 12–20 million tons, depending on the scenarios regarding economic growth and recycling rates.[1] Of course, lithium isn't the only element we can use to make batteries. Note, I'm not making a claim one way or the other on the feasibility, just stating that resources don't appear to be a limiting factor for the next ~life-time. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium

ghshephard 12y ago

Here is your feasibility for using batteries in just cars: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/ http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/ There's a lot of lithium, but it's unlikely there is enough Lithium in the world to provide everyone with large home batteries.

jimmcslim 12y ago
Other commenters disagree with this... but to pull in a concept from other stories on HN, I wonder if any near-Earth asteroids are rich in lithium?
lerouxb 12y ago
There is a LOT of lithium in the world and that's just near the surface - you can always dig down. But at that scale you don't have to use lithium anyway. When it comes to grid or off-grid storage, you don't need the best energy density as cost per watt-hour is probably the most important factor and there are already other chemistries on the market that will work just fine with many more on the way. Sodium or Aluminium based batteries seem particularly promising.