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I've lived in Detroit my whole life, in both the suburbs and the city. If you take the time to read the stories and literature of Detroit from 1915-Today, you'd

I've lived in Detroit my whole life, in both the suburbs and the city. If you take the time to read the stories and literature of Detroit from 1915-Today, you'd find that Detroit was the original Silicon Valley at the turn of the 20th century - we owned mechanical engineering and industrial operation engineering/mass production. Today, in summary - Detroit has a long way to go to be considered at the same level as a Chicago or Boston, from a domestic/international reputation standpoint. And that's ok! Those cities have their own problems, and we have the opportunity here to re-build a city using 21st century urban planning and engineering knowledge. But Gilbert and Ilitch can only take it so far. Would be nice to see some Fortune 500 companies relocating to Detroit. It's all about having a downtown where the 20-somethings meet their spouse and have families. SF/LA/SEA/CHI/NYC/BOS/DC have that down pretty well. Is there room for Detroit? Maybe. There's still 4+ million people here in Metro Detroit, so there's a blank entertainment canvas that the two billionaires have been constructing. Cool to see Rocket Fiber deploying FTTH Downtown, Midtown, and Woodbridge/Eastern Market. One little dirty secret - the levels of arsenic and heavy metals in the soil on ground they've torn down buildings is like nothing you've ever seen (75-100 years ago they didn't quite grasp that some chemicals shouldn't be used in building materials). It's toxic. Kim Worthy (city prosecutor) has a small project looking at the crime rates and lead exposure. The old Fisher Body Plant had cyanide (yes, cyanide) baths for metal plating. Yeah.

samatman 12y ago
Fellow near-native here, long gone though: We weren't the Silicon Valley of anything, because "Silicon Valley of" wasn't a meme yet. We were the Motor City, man. Silicon Valley is just the Motor City of computers. Now it's another frozen cog in the Rust Belt. The Bay would do well to remember that: prosperity, and property values, do not always increase.
- karpodiem 12y ago
  I know, I know. The Silicon Valley moniker resonates a bit better with audience here since this is Hacker News. Cog? Total global revenue between the Big 3 (General Motors, Ford, Chrysler - all based in Detroit for you HN readers) is over $250 billion USD annually. Shitty margins though, yes. People talk about the next $10B+ market cap company coming from something involving hardware. As software development skills become more pervasive, keep your eye on Detroit - you'd be surprised how much talent we've yet retained.
- shostack 12y ago
  Fair points, but you are comparing apples and oranges in many ways. The Bay Area as a geographic location outside of industry-related trends is objectively considered much more desirable to a larger percentage of individuals. You have amazing weather mostly year round, great food, interesting culture, many activities to do in neighboring areas (Tahoe, wine country, etc.), much closer to asian countries, etc. I get that there are reasons to live in Michigan (I grew up in Chicago), but the above reasons combined with the limited buildable land strike me as not really being a competition at all. I feel like there are many more reasons to want to live in the Bay Area, and those reasons coupled with the very real limitations on housing will keep positive pressure on prices for quite some time even if the tech industry were to eventually tank.
  - rayiner 12y ago
    > great food, interesting culture There was a book at the turn of the last century which had a quote along the lines of: "a gentleman would only ever consider living in a handful of American cities: Philadelphia, Baltimore, Cincinnati, New York..." Philly, Baltimore, Cincinnati--all have pockets of great culture, but it's clear they're the legacy of a bygone generation. I'm not even sure San Francisco has the kind of old money that would keep alive the culture at the level of those cities.
  - karpodiem 12y ago
    Yeah, about the lack of water in California... (I get that a vast majority of it is used for agriculture and can be re-diverted for personal consumption, but that is going to cause some serious upheaval for the local populace/economies in CA.
    - shostack 12y ago
      That's the main worry I have in terms of long-term impact on home values. If the Bay Area turns into a complete desert, that would be problematic. But that's really the big environmental disaster I can think of. If there was an earthquake that didn't level the entire Bay, I actually think that wouldn't do much other than cause people to say "oh, people are scared, I'll bet prices will be down, I should buy now!"
- rmason 12y ago
  Detroit, like Silicon Valley of today was the top income generating region in America. My 99 year old dad remembers the twenties as a time of opulence and unbeatable optimism. People were arriving from all over the country to seek their fortunes.
sjg007 12y ago
great. move to detroit, get married, have kids, kids get lead exposure and become violent criminals.
- karpodiem 12y ago
  I think you if do a new development on a newly purchased city parcel, and call the right people downtown, they'll send the state out to do remediation. But yeah, no way I would build on vacant land in Detroit without getting the ground and water tested first.
derefr 12y ago
> The old Fisher Body Plant had cyanide (yes, cyanide) baths for metal plating. This is not some outdated thing like asbestos; bonding cyanides of metals together is pretty much just how you do electroplating. It's also not all that scary; there are a bunch of well-known industrial methods of neutralizing the cyanide afterward[1]. [1] http://www.sgs.ca/~/media/Global/Documents/Flyers%20and%20Leaflets/SGS-MIN-WA017-Cyanide-Destruction-EN-11.pdf http://www.sgs.ca/~/media/Global/Documents/Flyers%20and%20Le...
rmason 12y ago
Fourth map on this page shows Detroit: http://www.urbanleadpoisoning.com/ http://www.urbanleadpoisoning.com/
presty 12y ago
fun fact: the Valley's soil isn't that great either http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/not-even-silicon-valley-escapes-history/277824/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/not-ev...

samatman 12y ago

Fellow near-native here, long gone though: We weren't the Silicon Valley of anything, because "Silicon Valley of" wasn't a meme yet. We were the Motor City, man. Silicon Valley is just the Motor City of computers. Now it's another frozen cog in the Rust Belt. The Bay would do well to remember that: prosperity, and property values, do not always increase.

karpodiem 12y ago
I know, I know. The Silicon Valley moniker resonates a bit better with audience here since this is Hacker News. Cog? Total global revenue between the Big 3 (General Motors, Ford, Chrysler - all based in Detroit for you HN readers) is over $250 billion USD annually. Shitty margins though, yes. People talk about the next $10B+ market cap company coming from something involving hardware. As software development skills become more pervasive, keep your eye on Detroit - you'd be surprised how much talent we've yet retained.
shostack 12y ago
Fair points, but you are comparing apples and oranges in many ways. The Bay Area as a geographic location outside of industry-related trends is objectively considered much more desirable to a larger percentage of individuals. You have amazing weather mostly year round, great food, interesting culture, many activities to do in neighboring areas (Tahoe, wine country, etc.), much closer to asian countries, etc. I get that there are reasons to live in Michigan (I grew up in Chicago), but the above reasons combined with the limited buildable land strike me as not really being a competition at all. I feel like there are many more reasons to want to live in the Bay Area, and those reasons coupled with the very real limitations on housing will keep positive pressure on prices for quite some time even if the tech industry were to eventually tank.
- rayiner 12y ago
  > great food, interesting culture There was a book at the turn of the last century which had a quote along the lines of: "a gentleman would only ever consider living in a handful of American cities: Philadelphia, Baltimore, Cincinnati, New York..." Philly, Baltimore, Cincinnati--all have pockets of great culture, but it's clear they're the legacy of a bygone generation. I'm not even sure San Francisco has the kind of old money that would keep alive the culture at the level of those cities.
- karpodiem 12y ago
  Yeah, about the lack of water in California... (I get that a vast majority of it is used for agriculture and can be re-diverted for personal consumption, but that is going to cause some serious upheaval for the local populace/economies in CA.
  - shostack 12y ago
    That's the main worry I have in terms of long-term impact on home values. If the Bay Area turns into a complete desert, that would be problematic. But that's really the big environmental disaster I can think of. If there was an earthquake that didn't level the entire Bay, I actually think that wouldn't do much other than cause people to say "oh, people are scared, I'll bet prices will be down, I should buy now!"
rmason 12y ago
Detroit, like Silicon Valley of today was the top income generating region in America. My 99 year old dad remembers the twenties as a time of opulence and unbeatable optimism. People were arriving from all over the country to seek their fortunes.

sjg007 12y ago

great. move to detroit, get married, have kids, kids get lead exposure and become violent criminals.

karpodiem 12y ago
I think you if do a new development on a newly purchased city parcel, and call the right people downtown, they'll send the state out to do remediation. But yeah, no way I would build on vacant land in Detroit without getting the ground and water tested first.

derefr 12y ago

> The old Fisher Body Plant had cyanide (yes, cyanide) baths for metal plating. This is not some outdated thing like asbestos; bonding cyanides of metals together is pretty much just how you do electroplating. It's also not all that scary; there are a bunch of well-known industrial methods of neutralizing the cyanide afterward[1]. [1] http://www.sgs.ca/~/media/Global/Documents/Flyers%20and%20Leaflets/SGS-MIN-WA017-Cyanide-Destruction-EN-11.pdf http://www.sgs.ca/~/media/Global/Documents/Flyers%20and%20Le...

rmason 12y ago

Fourth map on this page shows Detroit: http://www.urbanleadpoisoning.com/ http://www.urbanleadpoisoning.com/

presty 12y ago

fun fact: the Valley's soil isn't that great either http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/not-even-silicon-valley-escapes-history/277824/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/not-ev...