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On the other hand, consider terms like "cowboy", "best boy", and "bus boy". While "cowgirl" exists, it's usually associated with a different set of roles than
by dalke 12y ago
On the other hand, consider terms like "cowboy", "best boy", and "bus boy".
While "cowgirl" exists, it's usually associated with a different set of roles than a cowboy. We also usually find "cowboy coder" in a negative context, but a search now for "cowgirl coder" finds more positive contexts. Eg, "My name is Tarah Wheeler Van Vlack, and I blog about Linux, coding, current technology, and women’s issues in the IT workplace right here at The Cowgirl Coder." and "I was one happy cowgirl coder, so I just kept going—learning as much as I could about design, development, and tech in general."
(The general neutral term seems to be "cow hand" or "cattle handler".)
The term "best boy" appears to be used for both men and women, with no difference in their roles. This would be a non-sexist, or at least minimally sexist, use of the term.
The term "bus boy" appears to be disappearing, in place of busser. This is part of the general trend towards gender-neutral job titles, but part of me thinks it's also part of a longer trend of egalitarianism. That is, "boy" when directed towards an adult can indicate superior status. Hence why "garçon" - French for "boy" - should not be confused with the polite way to get the attention of a server in a French restaurant. As a more direct example, traditionally "boy" was also used by many white people to refer to any black male, no matter the age, specifically because blacks had inferior status than whites.
(And then there's "cabana boy", which can be used in contexts where "young male" is an essential aspect of the job, in the same eye candy way that "young woman" was an aspect of being a cigarette girl.)
You could pick out how "boy" is used in "best boy" to argue that it isn't a sexist term. But that argument would be incomplete because the issue isn't about any single title but the default-is-male implication in many titles.
I believe that your argument with "fisherman" is similar. If I ask "how many businessmen wear dresses?", I suspect that most would be be confused, and think I am asking about male transvestites, and only secondarily consider that many businesspeople are businesswomen who wear dresses.
I can ask the same question using other gendered topics. How many firemen have given birth? Of the policemen with heavy periods, do most prefer pads or tampons? I think more people would have a double-take with these -man/-men titles compared to the general-neutral forms of "firefighters" and "police officers". If I'm correct, that would suggest that -man in those titles comes with an assumption that they will be held by males, which makes them more sexist than the gender-neutral forms.
- wglb 12y agoI have two cousins who are cowboys. There is no such reference to "cattle handler" west of the mississippi so far as I know. And as I said, I haven't often prevailed in such arguments, but the question I have for you, is what are you doing to not make women and girls uncomfortable in our industry? I think this argument has gone off the rails with the bit about dresses, periods, and giving birth.
- dalke 12y agoI have no direct experience of how cowboy, etc. is used, outside of going to the rodeo. The research I did earlier was based on the Wikipedia entry for "cowboy" and verification that it's used globally. It seems to be common in NZ/AU. I can demonstrate that it's used by people west of the Mississippi, such as: > "Two nationally recognized cattle handling experts, Tom Noffsinger and Curt Pate, will be in Moses Lake[, Washington] ... Day one will feature Noffsinger, a veterinarian and low-stress cattle handling consultant, from Benkelman, Neb.." - http://farmprogress.com/story-nationally-known-cattle-handler-experts-speak-moses-lake-wash-session-9-125307 http://farmprogress.com/story-nationally-known-cattle-handle... > Born on April 1, 1883, in Waxahachie, Texas, Allen began working as a cattle handler at the age of ten in Jack County, Texas. - https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/falnq https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/falnq > Cattle handler Temple Grandin to speak at workshop - http://www.farmandranchguide.com/news/livestock/cattle-handler-temple-grandin-to-speak-at-workshop/article_a95fa710-57b2-11e3-9a27-0019bb2963f4.html http://www.farmandranchguide.com/news/livestock/cattle-handl... (FWIW, I've heard Temple Grandin speak.) It may be that in the US "cattle handler" is more associated with her style of low-stress cattle management; perhaps to place the emphasis on the cattle than the cowboy. I can think of other reasons as well. However, there's an entry for it in the "Classified Index of Occupations and Industries: 1960 [US] Census of Population" at https://books.google.com/books?id=8W7E7S9UTKEC&pg=PR3&lpg=PR3&dq=Classified+Index+of+Occupations+and+Industries&source=bl&ots=EI0sX0pZOx&sig=kbVuIM9fXcCprXLbVH3NzXmTasI&hl=sv&sa=X&ei=ruE1VdGaI4ScsAGu64Eo&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=cattle%20handler&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=8W7E7S9UTKEC&pg=PR3&lpg=PR... so it is not a new term. ("Cowboy -- Stockyards" is another category, as is cowpuncher; perhaps I should include 'cowpuncher' as another non-gender-specific alternative to cowhand?) This suggests that you and I have different styles; why did you not attempt to verify your beliefs before writing them? I have two uncles who are/were pilots, but that does not give me special knowledge of aviation vocabulary. Regarding your question - I do not like your rhetorical approach. It comes across like a change of topic to place me on the defensive. No matter how I respond, you can say that it's not enough, or you can attempt to second-guess my failures, or say that what I have done has "gone off the rails". I do not believe you spent much time on what I wrote previously, so don't think you would spend time in understanding anything else I write.