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I don't think this is true. Consider the popularity of emulators for older systems. People still care about and use old programs and games. You can even still b

by tbirdz 12y ago

I don't think this is true. Consider the popularity of emulators for older systems. People still care about and use old programs and games. You can even still buy games released 35+ years ago from online retailers like gog. Think about how old programs like ls, dd, etc are (even older when you consider the design and not just the implementation). People still care about "Super Mario Bros" (a computer program) today, over 30 years after it's original release. Is it really going to be forgotten in the next 10 years? 20? 30? I think not. Will all emulators be abandoned? Maybe appreciation for old computer programs is a niche interest, but let's face it, Kafka is not exactly popular among the masses either. Most software may be forgotten, but most books will be too.

SoftwareMaven 12y ago
I think this would fall into the category of "picking up the dance". For some software, people don't want the performance to end, so they bring the performances to new stages, but, as soon as they stop actively "performing", the dance will end.
bentcorner 12y ago
I find it a little sad that most modern computing will be lost to time. Early console games were easily self contained systems, and lent themselves well to emulation. Today's consoles are towers of complexity that will likely never be emulated. At best compatibility layers will be built into future systems to interoperate, the likely result is that the classics of today will continue to hobble along on a dwindling number of devices. At worst, a corporation loses interest and all their consoles immediately turn into expensive paperweights.
- korethr 12y ago
  I disagree. It's easy today to think of the consoles of yesteryear as simple self contained systems (A 6502-based CPU? How quaint!). However, Consider the unholy trinity that was the Sega Genesis/Master System/CD/32X. Though no longer modern, that absolutely is a tower of complexity, especially when it was brand new. The emulators of the game consoles of the past exist today because some hacker got curious and interested. Complexity certainly isn't stopping emulator devs. The Wii was more complex than the Gamecube, which was more complex than the N64, which was more complex than the SNES, which was more complex than the NES. And yet there are emulators available for all of those systems. What is different today that would prevent an enterprising hacker tomorrow from making emulators of today's consoles?
  - lloeki 12y ago
    > What is different today that would prevent an enterprising hacker tomorrow from making emulators of today's consoles? Not a sliver of hope of access to the server-side runtime of cloud-assisted† games? † not full-scale MMOs but Diablo III, Starcraft II, Destiny, even Guild Wars...
    - abricot 12y ago
      If they follow the example of Ultima Online they certainly will live on forever. In many some though, they will be replaced with full conversions that gets even more popular than the original.
mattlutze 12y ago
Emulators for old systems aren't very popular at all, compared to the general population's use of computers and computer systems. An increasingly small set of folks seeks out and builds / runs old NES or Sega emulators for the couple of games they miss from their childhood, but I'd wager a vast majority of computer system users today wouldn't even think of a gaming machine as a computer, let alone be able to be run on their modern machine. Perhaps the myopia of computer culture is a result of our lack of evangelism for classic systems, but, outside of games, most of software deviates from literature or music in that it's a tool. If I write a better word processor, why would I go back to use a two-decades-old word processor? I wouldn't. Same for graphics software, or IDEs, or web browsers, accounting tools, what have you. For the most part, these things go to obsolescence and there isn't a use case for dusting them off once that happens. With a book, a story is still a story whether the setting or events are modern or not. A song is still a song, whether played on harpsichord or synth tracks on a macbook. But a piece of software is a hammer or a handsaw or an impact driver. When you have a better one, you put the crappier one away and it doesn't see the light of day again until your kids are cleaning out your garage when they move you into a retirement home.
- tbirdz 12y ago
  Kafka also isn't very popular at all, compared to the general population's choice of reading material. Old software programs can be useful. For example, consider the diehard following of older programs like Deluxe Paint, Impulse Tracker, etc. I also don't think it's fair to compare utility the kind of utility programs that you are talking about to the works of Kafka. A novel is something designed to provide entertainment, insight, or some other benefit beyond the basic utility of a tool. I think the game is the best type of computer program to compare to a novel, in that they have the same aims. A better comparison for the type of program you are talking about would be something like a lost pet flyer, or a personal ad, a "Caution: Wet Paint" sign, the terms and conditions for a website or even a technical manual. These are also works of writing, but probably are not going to provide much value out of their specific situation and context, save for historical interest. So I guess the take-away is that if you want to create something that will be remembered for a long time, you have to more than just provide utility for your own specific time and situation. I think software programs are more than capable of doing that, the programmer just has to have the right focus in developing (so maybe a game, or a software art program, or a demo like the demoscene), or give the program some personality. On the other hand utility programs and utility writing are still useful and necessary in the short term, and there's nothing wrong with that.

by tbirdz 12y ago

SoftwareMaven 12y ago

I think this would fall into the category of "picking up the dance". For some software, people don't want the performance to end, so they bring the performances to new stages, but, as soon as they stop actively "performing", the dance will end.

bentcorner 12y ago

I find it a little sad that most modern computing will be lost to time. Early console games were easily self contained systems, and lent themselves well to emulation. Today's consoles are towers of complexity that will likely never be emulated. At best compatibility layers will be built into future systems to interoperate, the likely result is that the classics of today will continue to hobble along on a dwindling number of devices. At worst, a corporation loses interest and all their consoles immediately turn into expensive paperweights.

korethr 12y ago
I disagree. It's easy today to think of the consoles of yesteryear as simple self contained systems (A 6502-based CPU? How quaint!). However, Consider the unholy trinity that was the Sega Genesis/Master System/CD/32X. Though no longer modern, that absolutely is a tower of complexity, especially when it was brand new. The emulators of the game consoles of the past exist today because some hacker got curious and interested. Complexity certainly isn't stopping emulator devs. The Wii was more complex than the Gamecube, which was more complex than the N64, which was more complex than the SNES, which was more complex than the NES. And yet there are emulators available for all of those systems. What is different today that would prevent an enterprising hacker tomorrow from making emulators of today's consoles?
- lloeki 12y ago
  > What is different today that would prevent an enterprising hacker tomorrow from making emulators of today's consoles? Not a sliver of hope of access to the server-side runtime of cloud-assisted† games? † not full-scale MMOs but Diablo III, Starcraft II, Destiny, even Guild Wars...
  - abricot 12y ago
    If they follow the example of Ultima Online they certainly will live on forever. In many some though, they will be replaced with full conversions that gets even more popular than the original.

mattlutze 12y ago

Emulators for old systems aren't very popular at all, compared to the general population's use of computers and computer systems. An increasingly small set of folks seeks out and builds / runs old NES or Sega emulators for the couple of games they miss from their childhood, but I'd wager a vast majority of computer system users today wouldn't even think of a gaming machine as a computer, let alone be able to be run on their modern machine. Perhaps the myopia of computer culture is a result of our lack of evangelism for classic systems, but, outside of games, most of software deviates from literature or music in that it's a tool. If I write a better word processor, why would I go back to use a two-decades-old word processor? I wouldn't. Same for graphics software, or IDEs, or web browsers, accounting tools, what have you. For the most part, these things go to obsolescence and there isn't a use case for dusting them off once that happens. With a book, a story is still a story whether the setting or events are modern or not. A song is still a song, whether played on harpsichord or synth tracks on a macbook. But a piece of software is a hammer or a handsaw or an impact driver. When you have a better one, you put the crappier one away and it doesn't see the light of day again until your kids are cleaning out your garage when they move you into a retirement home.

tbirdz 12y ago
Kafka also isn't very popular at all, compared to the general population's choice of reading material. Old software programs can be useful. For example, consider the diehard following of older programs like Deluxe Paint, Impulse Tracker, etc. I also don't think it's fair to compare utility the kind of utility programs that you are talking about to the works of Kafka. A novel is something designed to provide entertainment, insight, or some other benefit beyond the basic utility of a tool. I think the game is the best type of computer program to compare to a novel, in that they have the same aims. A better comparison for the type of program you are talking about would be something like a lost pet flyer, or a personal ad, a "Caution: Wet Paint" sign, the terms and conditions for a website or even a technical manual. These are also works of writing, but probably are not going to provide much value out of their specific situation and context, save for historical interest. So I guess the take-away is that if you want to create something that will be remembered for a long time, you have to more than just provide utility for your own specific time and situation. I think software programs are more than capable of doing that, the programmer just has to have the right focus in developing (so maybe a game, or a software art program, or a demo like the demoscene), or give the program some personality. On the other hand utility programs and utility writing are still useful and necessary in the short term, and there's nothing wrong with that.