5 ms·

Reaching and re-engaging users on the mobile web

48 points by cjdulberger 11y ago

themodelplumber 11y ago
This is cool to see. The other day a client with about zero technical expertise told me she had won a grant to develop an app, then went on to explain "it has to be a web app that can be used offline; it can't be a regular app." I was pretty blown away and immediately offered to code it for her, just because I'd much rather build and promote this kind of app. These new Chromium features give me hope that it might be even easier to enhance web apps across the board, in the future. The downside (or frustrating side) with this project is that 1/4 of the grant money is set aside for coding the web app, and while it's not a teeny sum, I'm wondering just how much "app planning expertise" is being brought into the game by whoever's getting the other 3/4.
- frandroid 11y ago
  Clearly, they've got the budgeting upside down...
- karmelapple 11y ago
  You are part of that 3/4. A proof of concept or mockup to verify that you've correctly captured requirements? Sounds like planning to me. Determining which technology stack is best, including building (to be clear, I mean coding) some basic systems to test out if your assumptions about performance and writing the pieces are correct? That's planning. And so on. Hours spent writing code are not mutually exclusive to hours spent planning for the success of a software project.
chimeracoder 11y ago
It's kind of interesting to see Android, Chrome, and FirefoxOS all rushing towards the same point, though from different directions. Chrome is trying to "nativify" the browser, and making the browser a more seamless part of navigating Android[0]. With FirefoxOS, the webapp is already native, and the goal is to browserify the native OS (in other words, to make the operating system itself inside the browser). [0] I say Android specifically because this integration already goes much deeper on Android than on iOS, simply because it can.
untog 11y ago
This is pretty interesting. I remember some time ago Vox Media (who make The Verge and Polygon along with Vox itself) declared that they were going web-only: http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/2/6096609/welcome-to-verge-2-0 http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/2/6096609/welcome-to-verge-2-... It doesn't seem to have hurt them - but push notifications are probably the #1 feature that differentiates between webapps and native apps in a context like this. I wonder if they'll take advantage. (as with all things mobile web, this comes with the huge caveat that Apple have no intention of doing this (despite having similar functionality on desktop), and want to force everyone to use native apps, so it's unlikely to be a complete solution any time soon)
- wahsd 11y ago
  The whole push notification issue needs to be seen in context though even though most people consider it in a rather myopic and self-centered manner. Push notifications, in and of themselves are not all that bad of a thing; but push notifications sent by all the apps and all the services without any sort of coordination is bad for all of the apps because people tune them out or turn them off except for the most important ones like email, messages, calls. I think the OS that can solve the mental load question regarding notifications will make significant headway. I'm not sure what the answer totally looks like, but it seems to be it really needs to be an OS managed service. I would love to see it even utilize behavioral patterns, but I think there is still much work to be done for that to be useful, but I think Apple and Microsoft could be heading that way.
  - untog 11y ago
    A system whereby apps/sites post metadata about the items awaiting a user rather than specific notifications is an interesting idea. But I wouldn't want to be the one to formalise that system and try to encompass every interaction users have with their data online.
    - wahsd 11y ago
      It's definitely complicated, which is probably why no one has wanted to address it. People in tech nowadays, because money is just sloshing around and there are plenty of low hanging fruit to pluck, are largely not interested in solving difficult problems. I don't blame them, it's just an effect of the current system.
dublinben 11y ago
It would be a significant step towards "reaching and re-engaging users" if Google would make it possible to actually build a functional Chromium browser for Android. Since they've completely abandoned the default AOSP browser in favor of Chrome, there is no longer an up to date browser in AOSP.
- kinlan 11y ago
  My understanding is that there is a up to date Browser. The browser app has always been built with a WebView and the latest WebView is pointing to almost the tip of the development tree of Chromium.
- josteink 11y ago
  While I really agree with the sentiment of this post, it should be noted that the aosp browser seems quite a bit updated since lollipop. It's nowhere as bad as it used to be. We'll see how long it lasts.
kadder 11y ago
interesting , wonder how quickly will sites like HN, reddit jump on the bandwagon. Will be interesting to compare the experience to native push notifications
- kinlan 11y ago
  If you know people at HN, then I am happy to work with them to get a test implemented.

48 points by cjdulberger 11y ago

This is cool to see. The other day a client with about zero technical expertise told me she had won a grant to develop an app, then went on to explain "it has to be a web app that can be used offline; it can't be a regular app." I was pretty blown away and immediately offered to code it for her, just because I'd much rather build and promote this kind of app. These new Chromium features give me hope that it might be even easier to enhance web apps across the board, in the future. The downside (or frustrating side) with this project is that 1/4 of the grant money is set aside for coding the web app, and while it's not a teeny sum, I'm wondering just how much "app planning expertise" is being brought into the game by whoever's getting the other 3/4.

frandroid 11y ago
Clearly, they've got the budgeting upside down...
karmelapple 11y ago
You are part of that 3/4. A proof of concept or mockup to verify that you've correctly captured requirements? Sounds like planning to me. Determining which technology stack is best, including building (to be clear, I mean coding) some basic systems to test out if your assumptions about performance and writing the pieces are correct? That's planning. And so on. Hours spent writing code are not mutually exclusive to hours spent planning for the success of a software project.

chimeracoder 11y ago

It's kind of interesting to see Android, Chrome, and FirefoxOS all rushing towards the same point, though from different directions. Chrome is trying to "nativify" the browser, and making the browser a more seamless part of navigating Android[0]. With FirefoxOS, the webapp is already native, and the goal is to browserify the native OS (in other words, to make the operating system itself inside the browser). [0] I say Android specifically because this integration already goes much deeper on Android than on iOS, simply because it can.

untog 11y ago

This is pretty interesting. I remember some time ago Vox Media (who make The Verge and Polygon along with Vox itself) declared that they were going web-only: http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/2/6096609/welcome-to-verge-2-0 http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/2/6096609/welcome-to-verge-2-... It doesn't seem to have hurt them - but push notifications are probably the #1 feature that differentiates between webapps and native apps in a context like this. I wonder if they'll take advantage. (as with all things mobile web, this comes with the huge caveat that Apple have no intention of doing this (despite having similar functionality on desktop), and want to force everyone to use native apps, so it's unlikely to be a complete solution any time soon)

wahsd 11y ago
The whole push notification issue needs to be seen in context though even though most people consider it in a rather myopic and self-centered manner. Push notifications, in and of themselves are not all that bad of a thing; but push notifications sent by all the apps and all the services without any sort of coordination is bad for all of the apps because people tune them out or turn them off except for the most important ones like email, messages, calls. I think the OS that can solve the mental load question regarding notifications will make significant headway. I'm not sure what the answer totally looks like, but it seems to be it really needs to be an OS managed service. I would love to see it even utilize behavioral patterns, but I think there is still much work to be done for that to be useful, but I think Apple and Microsoft could be heading that way.
- untog 11y ago
  A system whereby apps/sites post metadata about the items awaiting a user rather than specific notifications is an interesting idea. But I wouldn't want to be the one to formalise that system and try to encompass every interaction users have with their data online.
  - wahsd 11y ago
    It's definitely complicated, which is probably why no one has wanted to address it. People in tech nowadays, because money is just sloshing around and there are plenty of low hanging fruit to pluck, are largely not interested in solving difficult problems. I don't blame them, it's just an effect of the current system.

dublinben 11y ago

It would be a significant step towards "reaching and re-engaging users" if Google would make it possible to actually build a functional Chromium browser for Android. Since they've completely abandoned the default AOSP browser in favor of Chrome, there is no longer an up to date browser in AOSP.

kinlan 11y ago
My understanding is that there is a up to date Browser. The browser app has always been built with a WebView and the latest WebView is pointing to almost the tip of the development tree of Chromium.
josteink 11y ago
While I really agree with the sentiment of this post, it should be noted that the aosp browser seems quite a bit updated since lollipop. It's nowhere as bad as it used to be. We'll see how long it lasts.

kadder 11y ago

interesting , wonder how quickly will sites like HN, reddit jump on the bandwagon. Will be interesting to compare the experience to native push notifications

kinlan 11y ago
If you know people at HN, then I am happy to work with them to get a test implemented.