5 ms·

My girlfriend did her Msc. in agricultural economics by spending months in Ethiopia, touring villages in a Toyota SUV with a driver and two translators and eval

My girlfriend did her Msc. in agricultural economics by spending months in Ethiopia, touring villages in a Toyota SUV with a driver and two translators and evaluating the various development programs. I joined her for the last 3 weeks, and so I got to know some of the guys that run these programs and the whole cultural UN/Worldbank etc. bubble. I came away impressed, the country itself is very under-developed, but these people (mostly) made a good impression. They try to do as much as possible on their own, and not relying too much on foreign expertise or leadership. Its not exactly a democracy, and some programs are essentially forced labour, requiring villagers to work for free and build these terraces and irrigation etc., but it works and they have no money to do it any other way. Places where people used to starve are now food-secure. It is also a great country to travel, violence is very rare and the food is really nice. It helped to eliminate lots of preconceptions I had.

rmc 12y ago
Can confirm. Ethiopia is a wonderful country, and very definitly off the beaten path a lot. It's maintained it's own independence for a long time and is quite unique.
- vixen99 12y ago
  its own independence.
- 616c 12y ago
  Ironic. Having recently been at UN camps in Kenya, I will let you guess where the few that would inspire the violence end up. http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e483a16.html http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e483a16.html See UNHCR 2015 Projection Figures for Kenya
msandford 12y ago
> Its not exactly a democracy, and some programs are essentially forced labour, requiring villagers to work for free and build these terraces and irrigation etc Well it's not as though a democracy is absolutely the best either; there are all kinds of undesirable features like losing 49/51 and getting basically no say for the next four years. But I digress. In the case where very little money changes hands (subsistence farming) then compulsory labor is a more effective tax than requiring cash payments. Any percentage of nothing is still nothing. And at only 20 days out of a notional 250 work day year, it's less than a 10% tax which seems incredibly reasonable compared to what people in the developed world pay, generally between 20% and 70% (or more) depending on country, state and city.
- m0skit0 12y ago
  A lot of so-called "democratic" countries have forced labor as well. Working for a ridiculous wage is no better than forced labor. Anyway, yes, we're digressing.
- im3w1l 12y ago
  >losing 49/51 Well contrast that with dictatorships where the side with 95% support still loses, and it feels a lot better. This to me is the main feature of democracy. The second best option will occasionally win against the best one. But at least the terrible option will lose.
  - msandford 12y ago
    I hear where you're coming from. And I generally agree. But I'm not 100% convinced that the terrible option always loses. In general it should. But it's not guaranteed by any means.
- MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
  I don't mean to imply that its a bad thing. There are even some instances where a military government was behaving better in some areas than a democratically elected one.

rmc 12y ago

Can confirm. Ethiopia is a wonderful country, and very definitly off the beaten path a lot. It's maintained it's own independence for a long time and is quite unique.

vixen99 12y ago
its own independence.
616c 12y ago
Ironic. Having recently been at UN camps in Kenya, I will let you guess where the few that would inspire the violence end up. http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e483a16.html http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e483a16.html See UNHCR 2015 Projection Figures for Kenya

msandford 12y ago

> Its not exactly a democracy, and some programs are essentially forced labour, requiring villagers to work for free and build these terraces and irrigation etc Well it's not as though a democracy is absolutely the best either; there are all kinds of undesirable features like losing 49/51 and getting basically no say for the next four years. But I digress. In the case where very little money changes hands (subsistence farming) then compulsory labor is a more effective tax than requiring cash payments. Any percentage of nothing is still nothing. And at only 20 days out of a notional 250 work day year, it's less than a 10% tax which seems incredibly reasonable compared to what people in the developed world pay, generally between 20% and 70% (or more) depending on country, state and city.

m0skit0 12y ago
A lot of so-called "democratic" countries have forced labor as well. Working for a ridiculous wage is no better than forced labor. Anyway, yes, we're digressing.
im3w1l 12y ago
>losing 49/51 Well contrast that with dictatorships where the side with 95% support still loses, and it feels a lot better. This to me is the main feature of democracy. The second best option will occasionally win against the best one. But at least the terrible option will lose.
- msandford 12y ago
  I hear where you're coming from. And I generally agree. But I'm not 100% convinced that the terrible option always loses. In general it should. But it's not guaranteed by any means.
MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
I don't mean to imply that its a bad thing. There are even some instances where a military government was behaving better in some areas than a democratically elected one.