5 ms·

Can we please stop to assume that younger generations don't want to own and do things? I don't know where this self-proclaimed fact comes from but hell I know

by timdaub 12y ago

Can we please stop to assume that younger generations don't want to own and do things? I don't know where this self-proclaimed fact comes from but hell I know a lot of people that define themselves not as non-materialistic AirBnB-Homejoy-Uber users. Instead, like everyone else on this planet, they want to express status with watches, cars and houses. Some maybe even enjoy mowing their lawn and cleaning their house, as it cleans their mind from stressful work related stuff. Yes, Uber and AirBnB are great services and we will use them a lot more in the future, but this doesn't mean that everyone will use a dogfood-delivery or brush-my-teeth service. The DIFM-Economy surely will exist, but it will probably be far smaller than silicon valley based journalist imagine it.

swalsh 12y ago
Silicon Valley has taken the motto "Build things you want" to heart, and is building things that are a great fit for living in silicon valley.
mcdougle 12y ago
You're definitely not wrong. Of course there are those in the younger generation who want to own things. I bet most of them do, in fact. I own my car, of course, and although I'm happy renting an apartment now, I'll be getting a house once I settle down and have a family. But there's no denying that there are those who just don't want the hassle. I have a friend who uses Uber to get anywhere -- even if it's a 5 minute drive. Most of my friends don't own homes and don't intend to (anytime soon, at least). I have a tenant who makes a very good living, has a very large savings account, and a very high credit score, owned his own home previously, and chose to rent from me because it's just easier. There's a pretty big market for those sorts of people -- and I think that's what the article was getting at.
- timdaub 12y ago
  Alright, I accept that and I don't think its a phenomena caused by our wealthy society for a specific generation, as some self-proclaimed millennial-educators suggest. Essentially what they're saying is that we millennials do not want to own things, because we already did had strong abundance of that in our childhood. Firstly, that is certainly not true for most people I know. Secondly, people I know that had strong abundance in their childhood, strive towards even more now. I think its owed to the fact of these peoples' current living situation as well as the state of the economy that there are some people that actually don't want to own things. But lets face it: To much of your money (at least in percentages) in a bank account ultimately is worth nothing. Spending it on services does - on the long term - not yield as much value as ownership. Think about it: You can sell your car after using it for 5-10 years. Same goes for your house, phone, watch, laptop, apartment. Ownership returns securities, and people need securities! I think people from our generation just ride this wave because of convenience but will ultimately converge to the ownership-game as everyone else.
  - mcdougle 12y ago
    Oh, for sure. I didn't say "not owning things" was smart (although I guess it depends on what you're trying to own) and running up your monthly expenses on unnecessary services is probably not the best way to get ahead in life. But people aren't always smart.
    - timdaub 12y ago
      > But people aren't always smart. I totally agree. But they will be smart after getting burned by reality. History repeats itself and the next crisis is right at our doorsteps. The desire to own things physically is correlating to the fear in society (just an assumption of mine). Thats why currently (I'd assume we're in a boom right now) some people rather use services instead of buying stuff. BTW.: I think it would be a super cool task to research ownership-spending vs services-spending correlated to economic-state!
  - nine_k 12y ago
    > You can sell your car after using it for 5-10 years. Same goes for your house, phone, watch, laptop, apartment. Seriously? Well, all right, houses and apartments are still securities. But how much does a 10-year-old car depreciate? I'd expect it to lose 70%-90% of the price of a new one. Phones, laptops, even non-mechanical watches — they lose close to 100% of value over 10 years unless you can sell them as collector items. Imagine that you could own a nice jug and come buy your milk with it. Nice, and your children could reuse the jug or sell it. But most people prefer to buy milk in disposable cardboard and plastic containers. Possibly, in 30 years they will use a different (but still disposable) container entirely. Technology moves too fast.
    - timdaub 12y ago
      Good point, but selling an item is not the only security/value ownership provides. I can do what ever I want with the item. I can use the item whenever I want. I can still lend the item to someone. Etc... Also, you don't have to necessarily sell the item once its lost all its value, but prior to that. And actually, I do this with my MBP every few years. I buy it intentionally, because I know its value isn't going to decline as fast as other laptops. Still, after 5-10 years you at least get SOMETHING out of your car for example, in contrast to all those Uber-rides you took 5 years ago. BTW.: These examples were probably not the best ones. I'm trying to think about better ones right now...
qsymmachus 12y ago
By "silicon valley based journalist" did you mean "Altos Ventures...an investor in several DIFM companies including Bench, OutboundEngine and Whitehat Security"?
mathattack 12y ago
This is true. But even if just 5-10% of the population is DIFM, that's enough to fund a lot of companies and take the growth away from a lot of mature companies. With interest rates low, a mature company can get away with 3-4% profit growth. Drop their topline revenue 5-10%, and their profit drops much more than that.

by timdaub 12y ago

swalsh 12y ago

Silicon Valley has taken the motto "Build things you want" to heart, and is building things that are a great fit for living in silicon valley.

mcdougle 12y ago

You're definitely not wrong. Of course there are those in the younger generation who want to own things. I bet most of them do, in fact. I own my car, of course, and although I'm happy renting an apartment now, I'll be getting a house once I settle down and have a family. But there's no denying that there are those who just don't want the hassle. I have a friend who uses Uber to get anywhere -- even if it's a 5 minute drive. Most of my friends don't own homes and don't intend to (anytime soon, at least). I have a tenant who makes a very good living, has a very large savings account, and a very high credit score, owned his own home previously, and chose to rent from me because it's just easier. There's a pretty big market for those sorts of people -- and I think that's what the article was getting at.

timdaub 12y ago
Alright, I accept that and I don't think its a phenomena caused by our wealthy society for a specific generation, as some self-proclaimed millennial-educators suggest. Essentially what they're saying is that we millennials do not want to own things, because we already did had strong abundance of that in our childhood. Firstly, that is certainly not true for most people I know. Secondly, people I know that had strong abundance in their childhood, strive towards even more now. I think its owed to the fact of these peoples' current living situation as well as the state of the economy that there are some people that actually don't want to own things. But lets face it: To much of your money (at least in percentages) in a bank account ultimately is worth nothing. Spending it on services does - on the long term - not yield as much value as ownership. Think about it: You can sell your car after using it for 5-10 years. Same goes for your house, phone, watch, laptop, apartment. Ownership returns securities, and people need securities! I think people from our generation just ride this wave because of convenience but will ultimately converge to the ownership-game as everyone else.
- mcdougle 12y ago
  Oh, for sure. I didn't say "not owning things" was smart (although I guess it depends on what you're trying to own) and running up your monthly expenses on unnecessary services is probably not the best way to get ahead in life. But people aren't always smart.
  - timdaub 12y ago
    > But people aren't always smart. I totally agree. But they will be smart after getting burned by reality. History repeats itself and the next crisis is right at our doorsteps. The desire to own things physically is correlating to the fear in society (just an assumption of mine). Thats why currently (I'd assume we're in a boom right now) some people rather use services instead of buying stuff. BTW.: I think it would be a super cool task to research ownership-spending vs services-spending correlated to economic-state!
- nine_k 12y ago
  > You can sell your car after using it for 5-10 years. Same goes for your house, phone, watch, laptop, apartment. Seriously? Well, all right, houses and apartments are still securities. But how much does a 10-year-old car depreciate? I'd expect it to lose 70%-90% of the price of a new one. Phones, laptops, even non-mechanical watches — they lose close to 100% of value over 10 years unless you can sell them as collector items. Imagine that you could own a nice jug and come buy your milk with it. Nice, and your children could reuse the jug or sell it. But most people prefer to buy milk in disposable cardboard and plastic containers. Possibly, in 30 years they will use a different (but still disposable) container entirely. Technology moves too fast.
  - timdaub 12y ago
    Good point, but selling an item is not the only security/value ownership provides. I can do what ever I want with the item. I can use the item whenever I want. I can still lend the item to someone. Etc... Also, you don't have to necessarily sell the item once its lost all its value, but prior to that. And actually, I do this with my MBP every few years. I buy it intentionally, because I know its value isn't going to decline as fast as other laptops. Still, after 5-10 years you at least get SOMETHING out of your car for example, in contrast to all those Uber-rides you took 5 years ago. BTW.: These examples were probably not the best ones. I'm trying to think about better ones right now...

qsymmachus 12y ago

By "silicon valley based journalist" did you mean "Altos Ventures...an investor in several DIFM companies including Bench, OutboundEngine and Whitehat Security"?

mathattack 12y ago

This is true. But even if just 5-10% of the population is DIFM, that's enough to fund a lot of companies and take the growth away from a lot of mature companies. With interest rates low, a mature company can get away with 3-4% profit growth. Drop their topline revenue 5-10%, and their profit drops much more than that.