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How do you know IkmoIkmo has broken neurochemistry? People with ADHD struggle with motivation. But perfectly normal people struggle with motivation too. There's

How do you know IkmoIkmo has broken neurochemistry? People with ADHD struggle with motivation. But perfectly normal people struggle with motivation too. There's a difference, but can you see it in a fifty-word post on the internet? As for the drudgery of University and crappy assignments- what, do you imagine "neurotypical" people love to do banal assignments that are below their skill level? Everybody hates make-work. The risk with all this is that manic depression, ADHD, etc are mostly an extreme form of things we all experience, so it's not hard for people to convince themselves they have it. As for finding enjoyment- University can be a slog. But I found once I had climbed high enough (and managed to drive myself to do the un-fun parts) it became rewarding. The thing is a lot of school is building foundations; the fun part comes later. That said, if your major is completely un-fun, you should reconsider your track. E.g., as much as advanced math was a complete chore for me, I knew I loved to design circuits, and I tinkered with them through all of University. You haven't known "God, I wish I was doing just about anything else right now" until it's June, sunny, and 75 outside, and you are sitting through a four-hour-solid lecture on linear algebra. But it was worth it.

Karunamon 12y ago
I called out the wrong post (actually it was derefr), but I know they have broken neurochemistry because medication greatly reduced the impact of the problem. You don't understand what I'm saying here - there's actually "banal", and then there's applying that description to any action you could be doing at this moment. A round of TF2? Meh let's try it.. nope, still bored. Go through my bug backlog on a couple of personal projects? Open the IDE and.. eww, forget that. Going for a walk? Boring. All of these things are things I legitimately enjoy doing, it's just that more often than not, there's a lack of enjoyment there. Sufficiently stimulated, that problem almost completely goes away (large amounts of caffeine, energy shots, etc). I really, truly doubt that this description of mental state is "normal" for most people.
derefr 12y ago
> do you imagine "neurotypical" people love to do banal assignments that are below their skill level? Actually, yes. I say this for the simple reason that dopaminergic stimulants make banal things fun, with a linear correlation to the degree of their dosage. Everyone loves cleaning their apartment on enough Adderall. If the dopamine-receptor-deficiency hypothesis of ADHD holds true (and it's a far stronger hypothesis than anything about depression et al.), then dopaminergic stimulants will act to emulate the neurochemistry of someone whose dopamine "set point" is naturally higher. Or, in other words, a person with ADHD, taking a properly-calibrated dose of an ADHD medication, should experience the same level of motivation as a neurotypical person. Which implies that if there is something that a particular dosage of a dopaminergic stimulant makes enjoyable, then people who naturally produce the same amount of dopamine endogenously will also find that task enjoyable. There are people who just love cleaning their houses, love banal assignments, love paperwork and bureaucracy. ("Love" being a bit strong—they experience no pain from it, and can get into a flow state from it somewhat like a video game. They probably won't say they enjoyed it, but they probably won't say they feel like they wasted time, either.) The weird insight one gets from this is: if dopamine-receptor imbalance forms a normal distribution (as many people have more dopamine than is neurotypical, as have less), then there are a whole lot of people walking around who really enjoy make-work. And some of them make policy decisions.
- AustinG08 12y ago
  > do you imagine "neurotypical" people love to do banal assignments that are below their skill level? Actually, yes. Actually, no.
  - derefr 12y ago
    Not objectively/absolutely banal. Relatively more banal, compared to the things people with ADHD can enjoy doing. There is a margin of things that are banal to people with ADHD but not to neurotypical people, just as there is a margin of things that are banal to neurotypical people but not to manic people. (Have you ever seen a crackhead picking at the floor trying to find bits of crack they might have dropped? [A common sight in my city, if you're wondering.] They can do it for 30 minutes with no chance of finding anything, not getting the slightest bit bored. Banal!)

Karunamon 12y ago

I called out the wrong post (actually it was derefr), but I know they have broken neurochemistry because medication greatly reduced the impact of the problem. You don't understand what I'm saying here - there's actually "banal", and then there's applying that description to any action you could be doing at this moment. A round of TF2? Meh let's try it.. nope, still bored. Go through my bug backlog on a couple of personal projects? Open the IDE and.. eww, forget that. Going for a walk? Boring. All of these things are things I legitimately enjoy doing, it's just that more often than not, there's a lack of enjoyment there. Sufficiently stimulated, that problem almost completely goes away (large amounts of caffeine, energy shots, etc). I really, truly doubt that this description of mental state is "normal" for most people.

derefr 12y ago

> do you imagine "neurotypical" people love to do banal assignments that are below their skill level? Actually, yes. I say this for the simple reason that dopaminergic stimulants make banal things fun, with a linear correlation to the degree of their dosage. Everyone loves cleaning their apartment on enough Adderall. If the dopamine-receptor-deficiency hypothesis of ADHD holds true (and it's a far stronger hypothesis than anything about depression et al.), then dopaminergic stimulants will act to emulate the neurochemistry of someone whose dopamine "set point" is naturally higher. Or, in other words, a person with ADHD, taking a properly-calibrated dose of an ADHD medication, should experience the same level of motivation as a neurotypical person. Which implies that if there is something that a particular dosage of a dopaminergic stimulant makes enjoyable, then people who naturally produce the same amount of dopamine endogenously will also find that task enjoyable. There are people who just love cleaning their houses, love banal assignments, love paperwork and bureaucracy. ("Love" being a bit strong—they experience no pain from it, and can get into a flow state from it somewhat like a video game. They probably won't say they enjoyed it, but they probably won't say they feel like they wasted time, either.) The weird insight one gets from this is: if dopamine-receptor imbalance forms a normal distribution (as many people have more dopamine than is neurotypical, as have less), then there are a whole lot of people walking around who really enjoy make-work. And some of them make policy decisions.

AustinG08 12y ago
> do you imagine "neurotypical" people love to do banal assignments that are below their skill level? Actually, yes. Actually, no.
- derefr 12y ago
  Not objectively/absolutely banal. Relatively more banal, compared to the things people with ADHD can enjoy doing. There is a margin of things that are banal to people with ADHD but not to neurotypical people, just as there is a margin of things that are banal to neurotypical people but not to manic people. (Have you ever seen a crackhead picking at the floor trying to find bits of crack they might have dropped? [A common sight in my city, if you're wondering.] They can do it for 30 minutes with no chance of finding anything, not getting the slightest bit bored. Banal!)