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I'm really surprised people on HN don't see the complexity of having distributed power generation that you have no visibility on. I don't really think this is a

I'm really surprised people on HN don't see the complexity of having distributed power generation that you have no visibility on. I don't really think this is as trivial a problem as people seem to think it is. As for the situation of selling power back to the grid, I would argue the solar users are still the customers. The power companies don't want it because the changes need to be paid for by current customers but only benefit ex-customers. The solar users are using the grid as a giant battery and an insurance policy for cloudy days. If the power companies are paying what they charge, then the laws of physics say they are losing money due to losses to heat, etc. So of course their margins are higher on their power.

crdoconnor 11y ago
>I'm really surprised people on HN don't see the complexity I never said it was a trivial problem. I said that it was a problem that the utility companies have a vested interest in not solving. I'm really surprised that people on HN are blind to this. >The power companies don't want it because the changes need to be paid for by current customers but only benefit ex-customers This is false. The power companies do not want it even if it is paid for by current customers because even if it is, it eats away at their profit margins. Every kwh generated by a home owner's solar panel is not a kwh they are being paid for, even if they just use it themselves and don't transmit it across the grid.
- thomaskcr 11y ago
  At least in Hawaii there are a lot of independent energy producers, so your statement is appears to be wrong that they only want to sell their own power. While the majority is their own, it looks like 35%ish is independently generated. They don't want to buy back power at the same rate they sell it, and since they can't control the nodes - the power from solar panels on homes is less valuable than that from larger independent producers since it costs more to control a distributed system. I'm sure they would buy it back, but people will be very angry about what they're willing to pay. People are also free to get batteries if they don't like what the market prices are for buying electricity. > I never said it was a trivial problem. I said that it was a problem that the utility companies have a vested interest in not solving. They probably would solve it, but they know that the cost of solving that subtracted from the rate they pay their energy producers is low enough that people will complain and it's not worth it. They probably come out ahead by not solving that problem, I'm not sure how you can mandate they solve a problem so people that want to go "off grid" don't have to buy their own batteries. That's really what they're trying to avoid - there is nothing preventing people from going completely off grid, they just don't want to buy their own batteries.
  - crdoconnor 11y ago
    >At least in Hawaii there are a lot of independent energy producers, so your statement is completely false that they only want to sell their own power. They're not doing that because they want to. >They don't want to buy back power at the same rate they sell it They don't want to buy power at all. Certainly not if they have existing capacity that they would rather use. Definitely not if it is a future threat to their bottom line. >People are also free to get batteries Batteries are a much more inefficient way of using power than selling it to your neighbor. >They probably would solve it, but they know that the cost of solving that subtracted from the rate they pay their energy producers is low enough that people will complain and it's not worth it. Let's not pretend they're not solving the problem for our benefit. This is about their profits. >I'm not sure how you can mandate they solve a problem so people that want to go "off grid" don't have to buy their own batteries. Because they are a monopoly and a utility. We mandate they solve problems because otherwise they will just milk their monopoly for all its worth and the only party that benefits from that is them.

crdoconnor 11y ago

>I'm really surprised people on HN don't see the complexity I never said it was a trivial problem. I said that it was a problem that the utility companies have a vested interest in not solving. I'm really surprised that people on HN are blind to this. >The power companies don't want it because the changes need to be paid for by current customers but only benefit ex-customers This is false. The power companies do not want it even if it is paid for by current customers because even if it is, it eats away at their profit margins. Every kwh generated by a home owner's solar panel is not a kwh they are being paid for, even if they just use it themselves and don't transmit it across the grid.

thomaskcr 11y ago
At least in Hawaii there are a lot of independent energy producers, so your statement is appears to be wrong that they only want to sell their own power. While the majority is their own, it looks like 35%ish is independently generated. They don't want to buy back power at the same rate they sell it, and since they can't control the nodes - the power from solar panels on homes is less valuable than that from larger independent producers since it costs more to control a distributed system. I'm sure they would buy it back, but people will be very angry about what they're willing to pay. People are also free to get batteries if they don't like what the market prices are for buying electricity. > I never said it was a trivial problem. I said that it was a problem that the utility companies have a vested interest in not solving. They probably would solve it, but they know that the cost of solving that subtracted from the rate they pay their energy producers is low enough that people will complain and it's not worth it. They probably come out ahead by not solving that problem, I'm not sure how you can mandate they solve a problem so people that want to go "off grid" don't have to buy their own batteries. That's really what they're trying to avoid - there is nothing preventing people from going completely off grid, they just don't want to buy their own batteries.
- crdoconnor 11y ago
  >At least in Hawaii there are a lot of independent energy producers, so your statement is completely false that they only want to sell their own power. They're not doing that because they want to. >They don't want to buy back power at the same rate they sell it They don't want to buy power at all. Certainly not if they have existing capacity that they would rather use. Definitely not if it is a future threat to their bottom line. >People are also free to get batteries Batteries are a much more inefficient way of using power than selling it to your neighbor. >They probably would solve it, but they know that the cost of solving that subtracted from the rate they pay their energy producers is low enough that people will complain and it's not worth it. Let's not pretend they're not solving the problem for our benefit. This is about their profits. >I'm not sure how you can mandate they solve a problem so people that want to go "off grid" don't have to buy their own batteries. Because they are a monopoly and a utility. We mandate they solve problems because otherwise they will just milk their monopoly for all its worth and the only party that benefits from that is them.