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I do think it is important to give credit to the far left for their activism on certain fronts. On this point I agree with you. You define a safe space as so

I do think it is important to give credit to the far left for their activism on certain fronts. On this point I agree with you. You define a safe space as something that people opt into. Do you really believe that? Here's an example that doesn't look very opt-in to me: http://www.brownpoliticalreview.org/2013/10/nypd-commissioner-ray-kelly-shut-down-at-brown/ http://www.brownpoliticalreview.org/2013/10/nypd-commissione... Further - while some people are no doubt standing up for free speech to protect their privilege, many are doing so for reasons that have nothing to do with their own feelings - but because we are concerned about the possibility that we might be wrong in our beliefs; the exact opposite of worrying about our own feelings. I don't agree with NYPD actions in recent times. But I need to be able to listen to what they have to say - JUST IN CASE I'm wrong in those beliefs. To not admit this possibility would be hubris of the worst kind. That many on the left can't see this is a great modern, political tragedy. They would achieve so much more if they did.

SwellJoe 11y ago
"You define a safe space as something that people opt into. Do you really believe that? Here's an example that doesn't look very opt-in to me" I believe the police commissioner of NYPD has sufficient power and influence to be heard in any number of venues (and, any time he holds a press conference, the world shows that I'm right in this assertion). I believe it is protecting privilege to insist he be heard when there are thousands of voices in the neighborhoods he has pledged to protect who those in power have refused to hear for decades. The time for the police commissioner to speak on issues of police abuse might be over...it might be time to hear somebody else talk about it, even if they have to be rude and yell to be heard. "To not admit this possibility would be hubris of the worst kind." On that, we are agreed. So why do we hear predominantly from police and representatives of police when police kill someone? I think our difference of perspective comes from the idea that everyone has equal access to "free speech" and so we should listen to everyone equally. But, that's not the reality we live in. The police commissioner, the mayor, the attorney general, etc. all have a vastly disproportionate amount of access to "free speech" that people of color who are their victims do not have. "That many on the left can't see this is a great modern, political tragedy." I am not on the left, though I can see how it might appear that way in this particular conversation. "They would achieve so much more if they did." I believe they'd also achieve so much more if they had the resources of those in power. But, they don't. So, they work with what they've got. And, sometimes all they have is the ability to shut shit down (and then go to jail for it, because that's how this system responds to criticism from those with the least access who resort to direct action out of desperation).
- grovulent 11y ago
  I think our difference of perspective comes from the idea that everyone has equal access to "free speech" and so we should listen to everyone equally. But, that's not the reality we live in. The police commissioner, the mayor, the attorney general, etc. all have a vastly disproportionate amount of access to "free speech" that people of color who are their victims do not have. Yeah - to be honest this response reads as though it was printed on the back of a packet of intersectional brand cereal. If only it were police chiefs that this cereal logic is responsible for attacking. There are comedians who get publicly humiliated over misunderstandings: http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-presenter-humiliated-me-on-stage-says-transge-1421596988 http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-presenter-humiliated-me-on-stage-... Male developers that get fired for making dick jokes: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/techie-adria-richards-fired-after-tweeting-about-mens-comments/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/techie-adria-richards-fired-afte... ...as though either of these transgressions were really worth the level of sanction your cereal logic ultimately demands. Yes, yes all privileged so you don't care about them - and you'll point out that the blow back onto the naive social justice folks that tried to apply this cereal logic is arguably worse. And I would agree. Except while I'll see the cause of both their completely unnecessary suffering in that cereal logic of yours, you'll blame the existing power structures for it. You'll egg them on while writing outraged tweets in their defense - signalling how much of a good person you are for being intersectional. Kotaku will get another zillion page views for covering the controversy. And the two people at the center of it - get publicly torn apart. It might be time to challenge that response of yours.
  - SwellJoe 11y ago
    What are you even talking about? I've mentioned none of the things you're talking about. I'm willing to go off on some tangents (obviously, since I followed you down the police commissioner tangent), but this is getting ridiculous. I'm not responsible, and I don't feel obligated to answer, for every ill you perceive in the world. Also, what brand of cereal are you buying that comes with "logic"? Your comment is more confusing than anything, frankly. "You'll egg them on while writing outraged tweets in their defense - signalling how much of a good person you are for being intersectional." I don't think we know each other, and I don't believe you follow me on twitter. I'm not interested in being some sort of straw man for your angry tirade.

SwellJoe 11y ago

"You define a safe space as something that people opt into. Do you really believe that? Here's an example that doesn't look very opt-in to me" I believe the police commissioner of NYPD has sufficient power and influence to be heard in any number of venues (and, any time he holds a press conference, the world shows that I'm right in this assertion). I believe it is protecting privilege to insist he be heard when there are thousands of voices in the neighborhoods he has pledged to protect who those in power have refused to hear for decades. The time for the police commissioner to speak on issues of police abuse might be over...it might be time to hear somebody else talk about it, even if they have to be rude and yell to be heard. "To not admit this possibility would be hubris of the worst kind." On that, we are agreed. So why do we hear predominantly from police and representatives of police when police kill someone? I think our difference of perspective comes from the idea that everyone has equal access to "free speech" and so we should listen to everyone equally. But, that's not the reality we live in. The police commissioner, the mayor, the attorney general, etc. all have a vastly disproportionate amount of access to "free speech" that people of color who are their victims do not have. "That many on the left can't see this is a great modern, political tragedy." I am not on the left, though I can see how it might appear that way in this particular conversation. "They would achieve so much more if they did." I believe they'd also achieve so much more if they had the resources of those in power. But, they don't. So, they work with what they've got. And, sometimes all they have is the ability to shut shit down (and then go to jail for it, because that's how this system responds to criticism from those with the least access who resort to direct action out of desperation).

grovulent 11y ago
I think our difference of perspective comes from the idea that everyone has equal access to "free speech" and so we should listen to everyone equally. But, that's not the reality we live in. The police commissioner, the mayor, the attorney general, etc. all have a vastly disproportionate amount of access to "free speech" that people of color who are their victims do not have. Yeah - to be honest this response reads as though it was printed on the back of a packet of intersectional brand cereal. If only it were police chiefs that this cereal logic is responsible for attacking. There are comedians who get publicly humiliated over misunderstandings: http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-presenter-humiliated-me-on-stage-says-transge-1421596988 http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-presenter-humiliated-me-on-stage-... Male developers that get fired for making dick jokes: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/techie-adria-richards-fired-after-tweeting-about-mens-comments/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/techie-adria-richards-fired-afte... ...as though either of these transgressions were really worth the level of sanction your cereal logic ultimately demands. Yes, yes all privileged so you don't care about them - and you'll point out that the blow back onto the naive social justice folks that tried to apply this cereal logic is arguably worse. And I would agree. Except while I'll see the cause of both their completely unnecessary suffering in that cereal logic of yours, you'll blame the existing power structures for it. You'll egg them on while writing outraged tweets in their defense - signalling how much of a good person you are for being intersectional. Kotaku will get another zillion page views for covering the controversy. And the two people at the center of it - get publicly torn apart. It might be time to challenge that response of yours.
- SwellJoe 11y ago
  What are you even talking about? I've mentioned none of the things you're talking about. I'm willing to go off on some tangents (obviously, since I followed you down the police commissioner tangent), but this is getting ridiculous. I'm not responsible, and I don't feel obligated to answer, for every ill you perceive in the world. Also, what brand of cereal are you buying that comes with "logic"? Your comment is more confusing than anything, frankly. "You'll egg them on while writing outraged tweets in their defense - signalling how much of a good person you are for being intersectional." I don't think we know each other, and I don't believe you follow me on twitter. I'm not interested in being some sort of straw man for your angry tirade.