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Consider what you just said. People clearly aren't that interested in being downtown if all it takes is a better Highway system to let them move out. What you

by hueving 12y ago

Consider what you just said. People clearly aren't that interested in being downtown if all it takes is a better Highway system to let them move out. What you are describing is a culture that already dislikes being downtown but is only there because the transit sucks. That's not a sign of a healthy downtown.

BrainInAJar 12y ago
All it takes is a taxpayer subsidized highway to move out. How much do people want to live in the suburbs? Enough to pay their own way to do so? Including the highways as well as the efficiency cost of eg, electricity and plumbing?
- NoPiece 12y ago
  Highways are bidirectional, so they only pull people out of downtowns if they already wanted out, whether it be for financial or personal reasons.
philwelch 12y ago
Highways occupy startling amounts of space. For instance, the entire city of Florence takes up the same amount of space as a single cloverleaf interchange in Atlanta: http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/you-cant-set-shop-side-expressway.html http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/you-cant-set-shop-sid... The very presence of freeways drives people away because they are noisy eyesores and impediments to local travel. In Seattle, I-5 cuts across the street grid and separates downtown from Capital Hill and First Hill, while the Alaskan Way Viaduct cuts downtown off from the waterfront. If both of these were removed (I-5 could take a bypass route around the Seattle city center using what is now I-405), downtown Seattle would be much more livable and would have better traffic on account of being able to reconnect the street grid.
- hueving 12y ago
  You don't put a cloverleaf interchange downtown so that comparison is dumb. An international airport takes up way more space and cities still seem to have them. See why that's stupid? The presence of freeways does not drive away people. If that were true there would be no freeways in any populated location. If you remove all freeways it would impede people's ability to visit and make the downtown less crowded. Perhaps that's your intention.
  - philwelch 12y ago
    You're being extremely reductive here, frankly to a dishonest degree. For regional and national transportation networks, freeways are necessary. Freeways are unnecessary in the city center and do not belong there, just like international airports don't belong in the city center. New York City and San Francisco are completely bypassed by the major interstate freeways, and they are more livable and desirable for that very reason. By way of contrast, Seattle suffers from the presence of I-5 throughout the city center, or the I-5/I-90 interchange in the city center.

by hueving 12y ago

BrainInAJar 12y ago

All it takes is a taxpayer subsidized highway to move out. How much do people want to live in the suburbs? Enough to pay their own way to do so? Including the highways as well as the efficiency cost of eg, electricity and plumbing?

NoPiece 12y ago
Highways are bidirectional, so they only pull people out of downtowns if they already wanted out, whether it be for financial or personal reasons.

philwelch 12y ago

Highways occupy startling amounts of space. For instance, the entire city of Florence takes up the same amount of space as a single cloverleaf interchange in Atlanta: http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/you-cant-set-shop-side-expressway.html http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/you-cant-set-shop-sid... The very presence of freeways drives people away because they are noisy eyesores and impediments to local travel. In Seattle, I-5 cuts across the street grid and separates downtown from Capital Hill and First Hill, while the Alaskan Way Viaduct cuts downtown off from the waterfront. If both of these were removed (I-5 could take a bypass route around the Seattle city center using what is now I-405), downtown Seattle would be much more livable and would have better traffic on account of being able to reconnect the street grid.

hueving 12y ago
You don't put a cloverleaf interchange downtown so that comparison is dumb. An international airport takes up way more space and cities still seem to have them. See why that's stupid? The presence of freeways does not drive away people. If that were true there would be no freeways in any populated location. If you remove all freeways it would impede people's ability to visit and make the downtown less crowded. Perhaps that's your intention.
- philwelch 12y ago
  You're being extremely reductive here, frankly to a dishonest degree. For regional and national transportation networks, freeways are necessary. Freeways are unnecessary in the city center and do not belong there, just like international airports don't belong in the city center. New York City and San Francisco are completely bypassed by the major interstate freeways, and they are more livable and desirable for that very reason. By way of contrast, Seattle suffers from the presence of I-5 throughout the city center, or the I-5/I-90 interchange in the city center.