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The first form—“The Question Ordinaire,” as it was labeled—called for an elaborate pulling of limbs: “With his wrists tied tightly to a bar behind him, Calas wa

The first form—“The Question Ordinaire,” as it was labeled—called for an elaborate pulling of limbs: “With his wrists tied tightly to a bar behind him, Calas was stretched by a system of cranks and pulleys that steadily drew his arms up while an iron weight kept his feet in place.” But Calas did not confess. The second form—or, “The Question Extraordinaire”—might sound familiar, having been much in the news in recent years. Calas’s mouth was forced open with two sticks. Then came the water, pitcher after pitcher. “His head was held low and a cloth placed over his mouth and on the cloth a funnel,” is how one author described this torture. “His nose was pinched, but from time to time released, then water was slowly poured through the funnel on to the cloth which was sucked in by the suffocating man.” Still, Calas did not confess. We have not progressed much. And from the order of the punishments, at least they understood that threat of death is worse than threat of injury.

lisa_henderson 12y ago
Is this a typo? "at least they understood that threat of death is worse than threat of injury" Surely you meant to write the opposite? As we've all been told, over and over again, at least since it became clear that President Bush was encouraging torture, is the old slogan "death is what you wish for when you are being tortured." Personally, given a choice between a quick, painless death and some of the worst kinds of torture, I would always chose death. Rather death than, say, being tied tightly in a chair while someone takes some nails and a hammer and hammers the nails through my hand, or being bound so I can not move and then having rats allowed to eat my face and eyeballs.
- comrade1 12y ago
  It probably depends on the method. With waterboarding you pass out, they wake you up and waterboard you more, you pass out again, they wake you again, waterboard you some more, pass out again, wake you up, repeat over the course of tens of hours. You might lose some brain cells but it's more psychological than permanent. And maybe you know that. Compare that to extracting an eye, a second eye, a tongue... cutting off an ear, a nose, fingers, destroying your knee cartilage, cutting your Achilles tendon? So it sounds like torture was institutionalized in France in the 1700s much like it is in the u.s. now, and that less permanent forms of torture were accepted, much like it is now in the u.s. So, I think I'd first take these institutionalized forms of torture, then death, then the more gruesome and permanent forms of torture.
  - Someone 12y ago
    Are you implying that “The Question Ordinaire,” didn't have permanent effects? I doubt that, as it looks fairly similar to what a rack does (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_(torture) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_(torture))
  - pakled_engineer 12y ago
    They are still permanent, you likely don't walk out of CIA black sites and have any kind of normal life again. If PTSD affects volunteer soldiers badly enough to require long term treatment what does being subjected to repeated torture designed by unethical psychologists and MDs do to somebody.
- kiba 12y ago
  Surely you meant to write the opposite? As we've all been told, over and over again, at least since it became clear that President Bush was encouraging torture, is the old slogan "death is what you wish for when you are being tortured." Intuitive belief in that torture extract useful intelligence rather than that the prisoners will say anything in order to stop the torture. This is all for the quest of never ever letting another 9/11 attack happens.

lisa_henderson 12y ago

Is this a typo? "at least they understood that threat of death is worse than threat of injury" Surely you meant to write the opposite? As we've all been told, over and over again, at least since it became clear that President Bush was encouraging torture, is the old slogan "death is what you wish for when you are being tortured." Personally, given a choice between a quick, painless death and some of the worst kinds of torture, I would always chose death. Rather death than, say, being tied tightly in a chair while someone takes some nails and a hammer and hammers the nails through my hand, or being bound so I can not move and then having rats allowed to eat my face and eyeballs.

comrade1 12y ago
It probably depends on the method. With waterboarding you pass out, they wake you up and waterboard you more, you pass out again, they wake you again, waterboard you some more, pass out again, wake you up, repeat over the course of tens of hours. You might lose some brain cells but it's more psychological than permanent. And maybe you know that. Compare that to extracting an eye, a second eye, a tongue... cutting off an ear, a nose, fingers, destroying your knee cartilage, cutting your Achilles tendon? So it sounds like torture was institutionalized in France in the 1700s much like it is in the u.s. now, and that less permanent forms of torture were accepted, much like it is now in the u.s. So, I think I'd first take these institutionalized forms of torture, then death, then the more gruesome and permanent forms of torture.
- Someone 12y ago
  Are you implying that “The Question Ordinaire,” didn't have permanent effects? I doubt that, as it looks fairly similar to what a rack does (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_(torture) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_(torture))
- pakled_engineer 12y ago
  They are still permanent, you likely don't walk out of CIA black sites and have any kind of normal life again. If PTSD affects volunteer soldiers badly enough to require long term treatment what does being subjected to repeated torture designed by unethical psychologists and MDs do to somebody.
kiba 12y ago
Surely you meant to write the opposite? As we've all been told, over and over again, at least since it became clear that President Bush was encouraging torture, is the old slogan "death is what you wish for when you are being tortured." Intuitive belief in that torture extract useful intelligence rather than that the prisoners will say anything in order to stop the torture. This is all for the quest of never ever letting another 9/11 attack happens.