4 ms·

Fast food workers you don't deserve 15 an hour to flip burgers and that is ok

13 points by Errorcod3 11y ago

Errorcod3 11y ago
What is your current career/salary, and how long did it take for you to get there?
- Errorcod3 11y ago
  I make 70k, and got there with 5 years of military experience, and 1 year as a contractor to become a Intelligence Specialist at a GG-12 payscale.
cauterized 11y ago
Just because $15/hr is more than many police or firefighters make doesn't mean that it's too much to ask for. Perhaps we should consider that police and firefighters (and also the accountants et al who are mentioned in the article) are also underpaid. Maybe the decreasing real value of minimum wage is also depressing wages and salaries for more skilled and higher paid workers.
mc_hammer 11y ago
idk if you can make 150 burgers an hour someone can probably pay you 3-4 the markup on fast food is like 1000%
krapp 11y ago
This article appears to suggest that the "comfortable" lifestyle being sought by the workers here is one of needless decadence and undeserved luxury, when even $15.00 an hour may still be marginally above the standard of living depending on the region, particularly for a student, or single parent. I have to disagree with the premise that education, skill and expertise are strong qualifiers for level of income. Companies want to pay you as little for your time as possible, in order to extract as much value out of you as possible. You can bet your bottom dollar that EMTs and dentists and whomever you might consider deserving of comfort would be making minimum wage if their employers could get away with it. They can't, not because employers recognize that those jobs are somehow implicitly more worthy, but because the labor pool would refuse to work for those wages, and because those jobs can't effectively be automated or outsourced yet. If fast food companies can afford to pay burger flippers $15.00 an hour and still make a profit, then perhaps the author should consider whether or not more estimable jobs, by comparison, are still valued too little.
justanother 11y ago
This is the wrong argument. Wages should be based on what the market will bear, not merit, and this practically an axiom of free-market conservative thought. In fact, arguing from merit is something I'd expect from gasp leftists. If these people are successful in their collective bargaining, then congratulations, $15 an hour is what the market will bear for their services and they deserve every shiny penny.
- erikpukinskis 11y ago
  I don't think wages should be based on merit, I think they should be based on how much value people contribute to the company. The market doesn't optimize for that because of wide-scale wage fixing. The market pays the best receptionists worse than the worst engineers because there's a cultural belief that's a lower caliber of work. Markets don't operate in some magical land of rationality that is divorced from culture.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    You have your wish, mostly. Prices are bid up on jobs that are a) valuable to the company and b) hard to obtain. Its not always culture at work; sometimes in the market, and that example (admin vs engineer) is a perfect illustration of the wage/value proposition. Price-fixing is just a derogatory word for 'the market', isn't it?
    - erikpukinskis 11y ago
      No, price fixing is when a group or institution colludes to set a price above or below it's useful value in order to extract money from those outside the group.
  - wkearney99 11y ago
    They pay the engineers more, perhaps, because it's the work product those engineers create that generates revenue for the company. The receptionist, as useful as the position may be, is not likely a revenue-generating source for the company. There's no 'cultural belief' necessary to understand that. As for 'markets', they're as rigged as the participants allow. You, as buyers, need to turn a blind eye toward the actions necessary 'behind the scenes' in order for the companies to get away with underpaying their personnel. As long as the buying audience actively chooses 'not to care' the companies will do whatever is necessary to avoid profits being spent on employee wages.
galfarragem 11y ago
Supply and demand define salaries. Morality doesn't.
ReallyAnonymous 11y ago
As stated below, the real problem is wage suppression by those with the money. As more wealth gets concentrated to a few, they can decide what someone is worth. That is why there is no middle class. Everyone is replaceable and everyone that contacts customers / provides services gets paid shit, but the managers / vice presidents / presidents, etc... that go to meetings all day, make bank. Trust me, I work for a hospital and entry salaries are insultingly low, poverty level, but there are a bajillion managers / vice presidents that I am sure make six figures. Not sure what they do all day, but I know they don't participate in patient care. Me, I'm a surgeon and do just fine, but it's crazy how little the support staff in the OR make. Even when they're awesome.

13 points by Errorcod3 11y ago

Errorcod3 11y ago

What is your current career/salary, and how long did it take for you to get there?

Errorcod3 11y ago
I make 70k, and got there with 5 years of military experience, and 1 year as a contractor to become a Intelligence Specialist at a GG-12 payscale.

cauterized 11y ago

Just because $15/hr is more than many police or firefighters make doesn't mean that it's too much to ask for. Perhaps we should consider that police and firefighters (and also the accountants et al who are mentioned in the article) are also underpaid. Maybe the decreasing real value of minimum wage is also depressing wages and salaries for more skilled and higher paid workers.

mc_hammer 11y ago

idk if you can make 150 burgers an hour someone can probably pay you 3-4 the markup on fast food is like 1000%

krapp 11y ago

This article appears to suggest that the "comfortable" lifestyle being sought by the workers here is one of needless decadence and undeserved luxury, when even $15.00 an hour may still be marginally above the standard of living depending on the region, particularly for a student, or single parent. I have to disagree with the premise that education, skill and expertise are strong qualifiers for level of income. Companies want to pay you as little for your time as possible, in order to extract as much value out of you as possible. You can bet your bottom dollar that EMTs and dentists and whomever you might consider deserving of comfort would be making minimum wage if their employers could get away with it. They can't, not because employers recognize that those jobs are somehow implicitly more worthy, but because the labor pool would refuse to work for those wages, and because those jobs can't effectively be automated or outsourced yet. If fast food companies can afford to pay burger flippers $15.00 an hour and still make a profit, then perhaps the author should consider whether or not more estimable jobs, by comparison, are still valued too little.

justanother 11y ago

This is the wrong argument. Wages should be based on what the market will bear, not merit, and this practically an axiom of free-market conservative thought. In fact, arguing from merit is something I'd expect from gasp leftists. If these people are successful in their collective bargaining, then congratulations, $15 an hour is what the market will bear for their services and they deserve every shiny penny.

erikpukinskis 11y ago
I don't think wages should be based on merit, I think they should be based on how much value people contribute to the company. The market doesn't optimize for that because of wide-scale wage fixing. The market pays the best receptionists worse than the worst engineers because there's a cultural belief that's a lower caliber of work. Markets don't operate in some magical land of rationality that is divorced from culture.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  You have your wish, mostly. Prices are bid up on jobs that are a) valuable to the company and b) hard to obtain. Its not always culture at work; sometimes in the market, and that example (admin vs engineer) is a perfect illustration of the wage/value proposition. Price-fixing is just a derogatory word for 'the market', isn't it?
  - erikpukinskis 11y ago
    No, price fixing is when a group or institution colludes to set a price above or below it's useful value in order to extract money from those outside the group.
- wkearney99 11y ago
  They pay the engineers more, perhaps, because it's the work product those engineers create that generates revenue for the company. The receptionist, as useful as the position may be, is not likely a revenue-generating source for the company. There's no 'cultural belief' necessary to understand that. As for 'markets', they're as rigged as the participants allow. You, as buyers, need to turn a blind eye toward the actions necessary 'behind the scenes' in order for the companies to get away with underpaying their personnel. As long as the buying audience actively chooses 'not to care' the companies will do whatever is necessary to avoid profits being spent on employee wages.

galfarragem 11y ago

Supply and demand define salaries. Morality doesn't.

ReallyAnonymous 11y ago

As stated below, the real problem is wage suppression by those with the money. As more wealth gets concentrated to a few, they can decide what someone is worth. That is why there is no middle class. Everyone is replaceable and everyone that contacts customers / provides services gets paid shit, but the managers / vice presidents / presidents, etc... that go to meetings all day, make bank. Trust me, I work for a hospital and entry salaries are insultingly low, poverty level, but there are a bajillion managers / vice presidents that I am sure make six figures. Not sure what they do all day, but I know they don't participate in patient care. Me, I'm a surgeon and do just fine, but it's crazy how little the support staff in the OR make. Even when they're awesome.