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Am I the only one who finds it difficult to mentally concentrate on a task after physical exercise? I feel like all my energy has been spent and there's not muc

by hasenj 12y ago

Am I the only one who finds it difficult to mentally concentrate on a task after physical exercise? I feel like all my energy has been spent and there's not much (glucose?) left for my brain to function at higher levels of abstractions.

UhUhUhUh 12y ago
That's because you don't need movement to stabilize your thinking and that expense of glucose depletes your resources. My experience is that ADHD kids need some sensori-motor input to help them reach their cognitive baseline. However, I don't agree with the study's conclusion because it tested a sort of "carpet-bombing" approach to the problem (i.e. lots of movement, injection of endorphins). I think that a much more efficient way, and I believe, more durable also, would be rock-climbing because in addition to the physical expense (i.e. energy output), it also stimulates very powerfully concentration/focus and the zones of the brain associated with it (i.e somewhere in the pre-frontal cortex) and can actually teach concentration and focus. I even wonder whether the best rock-climbers are not self-medicated ADHDs rather than so-called "adrenaline-junkies". Jumping off a bridge gushes adrenaline system-wide, climbing a face does not.
fferen 12y ago
That's kinda what the study finds: the worst group was the non-ADHD group that exercised.
bitexploder 12y ago
Exercising, especially at your limits, drains mental energy from the same bucket as hard thought about say, math problems. In addition you are burning energy. Your bucket of cognitive energy is only so big. I think if you have already normal levels of dopamine and endorphins the rush of them after exercise doesn't do very much for you. For the ADHD brain, which lacks a normal level of dopamine the exercise intensity is offset by the production of dopamine. For me, hard exercise, a proper recovery period of about an hour (nutrition, relaxing) and I enter a period of high productivity for about 4-5 hours. I can intensely focus in this time. After that I have to move around some more (it's also later in the afternoon then when many people are getting a little tired anyway). I can usually settle in to deal with lower cognitive load tasks after that (easier coding, email, report writing, et.) for a few hours.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- federico3 12y ago
  Citation needed.
  - bitexploder 12y ago
    Agreed. It's not a complete wild-ass-guess, though. So, I draw from a couple of resources. From the Lore of Running, by Tim Noakes (a well respected exercise physiologist) he discusses the mental energy required to stick with a training program that involves hard workouts. He notes it is a pretty well observed phenomenon for him (and many others), that doing thinking tasks on hard workout days can be harder. His example was writing and his research work in the midst of training hard. From Thinking, Fast and Slow, Daniel Kahneman shows how the brain sort of "crashes" when glucose levels fall. He also discusses how we have this finite bucket of cognitive energy and I don't think it is a stretch to say that working out hard drains that bucket. There is enough anecdotal data that supports this at a high level. And finally, in the book The Sports Gene I was introduced to some fascinating studies in rodents. "Here at Axon Sports, we talk a lot about the brain’s role in playing sports. From vision to perception to decision making to emotions, the brain plays a critical role in sports success. What have we learned about neurogenetics that can influence an athlete’s performance from a cognitive perspective? DE: One of the most surprising things I learned in my reporting was that scientists know quite well that not only does the dopamine system in the brain—which is involved in the sense of pleasure and reward—respond to physical activity, but it can also drive physical activity. One of the scientists I quote in the book suggests that this may be why very active children who take Ritalin, which alters dopamine levels, suddenly have less drive to move around. That’s precisely what he sees when he gives Ritalin to the rodents he breeds for high voluntary running, anyway. And it appears that different versions of genes involved in the dopamine system influence the drive to be active. (Interestingly, native populations that are nomadic and that migrate long distances tend to have a higher prevalence of a particular dopamine receptor gene; the same one that predisposes people to ADHD. I discuss in the book the possible link.) " http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21676789 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21676789 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441939/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441939/ I think you can coherently weave these together to get a picture of how hard exercise can benefit someone with ADHD. Maybe the mechanisms aren't correct, but the end result is pretty clear to me.
fiblye 12y ago
Depends on the exercise. After lifting I'm exhausted, but even more motivated since I feel like I've accomplished something big and I'm eager to do more. After cardio, I'm too worn out to want to do anything.

by hasenj 12y ago

UhUhUhUh 12y ago

That's because you don't need movement to stabilize your thinking and that expense of glucose depletes your resources. My experience is that ADHD kids need some sensori-motor input to help them reach their cognitive baseline. However, I don't agree with the study's conclusion because it tested a sort of "carpet-bombing" approach to the problem (i.e. lots of movement, injection of endorphins). I think that a much more efficient way, and I believe, more durable also, would be rock-climbing because in addition to the physical expense (i.e. energy output), it also stimulates very powerfully concentration/focus and the zones of the brain associated with it (i.e somewhere in the pre-frontal cortex) and can actually teach concentration and focus. I even wonder whether the best rock-climbers are not self-medicated ADHDs rather than so-called "adrenaline-junkies". Jumping off a bridge gushes adrenaline system-wide, climbing a face does not.

fferen 12y ago

That's kinda what the study finds: the worst group was the non-ADHD group that exercised.

bitexploder 12y ago

Exercising, especially at your limits, drains mental energy from the same bucket as hard thought about say, math problems. In addition you are burning energy. Your bucket of cognitive energy is only so big. I think if you have already normal levels of dopamine and endorphins the rush of them after exercise doesn't do very much for you. For the ADHD brain, which lacks a normal level of dopamine the exercise intensity is offset by the production of dopamine. For me, hard exercise, a proper recovery period of about an hour (nutrition, relaxing) and I enter a period of high productivity for about 4-5 hours. I can intensely focus in this time. After that I have to move around some more (it's also later in the afternoon then when many people are getting a little tired anyway). I can usually settle in to deal with lower cognitive load tasks after that (easier coding, email, report writing, et.) for a few hours.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
federico3 12y ago
Citation needed.
- bitexploder 12y ago
  Agreed. It's not a complete wild-ass-guess, though. So, I draw from a couple of resources. From the Lore of Running, by Tim Noakes (a well respected exercise physiologist) he discusses the mental energy required to stick with a training program that involves hard workouts. He notes it is a pretty well observed phenomenon for him (and many others), that doing thinking tasks on hard workout days can be harder. His example was writing and his research work in the midst of training hard. From Thinking, Fast and Slow, Daniel Kahneman shows how the brain sort of "crashes" when glucose levels fall. He also discusses how we have this finite bucket of cognitive energy and I don't think it is a stretch to say that working out hard drains that bucket. There is enough anecdotal data that supports this at a high level. And finally, in the book The Sports Gene I was introduced to some fascinating studies in rodents. "Here at Axon Sports, we talk a lot about the brain’s role in playing sports. From vision to perception to decision making to emotions, the brain plays a critical role in sports success. What have we learned about neurogenetics that can influence an athlete’s performance from a cognitive perspective? DE: One of the most surprising things I learned in my reporting was that scientists know quite well that not only does the dopamine system in the brain—which is involved in the sense of pleasure and reward—respond to physical activity, but it can also drive physical activity. One of the scientists I quote in the book suggests that this may be why very active children who take Ritalin, which alters dopamine levels, suddenly have less drive to move around. That’s precisely what he sees when he gives Ritalin to the rodents he breeds for high voluntary running, anyway. And it appears that different versions of genes involved in the dopamine system influence the drive to be active. (Interestingly, native populations that are nomadic and that migrate long distances tend to have a higher prevalence of a particular dopamine receptor gene; the same one that predisposes people to ADHD. I discuss in the book the possible link.) " http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21676789 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21676789 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441939/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441939/ I think you can coherently weave these together to get a picture of how hard exercise can benefit someone with ADHD. Maybe the mechanisms aren't correct, but the end result is pretty clear to me.

fiblye 12y ago

Depends on the exercise. After lifting I'm exhausted, but even more motivated since I feel like I've accomplished something big and I'm eager to do more. After cardio, I'm too worn out to want to do anything.