6 ms·
> to line the pockets of the credit card duopoly and ensure the merchant always gets screwed. First, in the US there are four companies, not two (or three, if
by chimeracoder 12y ago
> to line the pockets of the credit card duopoly and ensure the merchant always gets screwed.
First, in the US there are four companies, not two (or three, if you don't want to count Discover). And chargebacks aren't the reason that there are so few players - they're far from the biggest barrier to entry for an upstart, aspiring credit card provider.
> In many developed countries there are consumer protection laws which entitle the buyer to Replacement, Repair, Refund (in that order usually), so a merchant not adhering to these laws could endup in serious legal trouble as is.
That's not what chargebacks are generally for, and in fact using a chargeback for any of those three things is oftentimes considered misuse of the chargeback system. Chargebacks are for handling disputes regarding the actual goods or services promised or rendered.
Furthermore, having laws in place means nothing if it's prohibitively expensive for consumers to actually get them to be enforced in all but the largest disputes. Chargebacks are a tool that consumers can (and do) use to ensure that merchants adhere to these agreements. No individual is going to go to court with a merchant over a few hundred dollars on a disputed credit card charge. The consumer delegates this authority to the credit card company, who is more than happy to aggregate this risk across multiple customers, in exchange for a cut[0]. This is not a problem; it is the system working as intended!
I'm saying this both as a consumer and as a merchant who has gotten screwed over by one of the four (not two) major credit card companies[1] - chargebacks suck, but they provide an essential protection for consumers that the judicial system cannot.
(All of this is separate from fraud, which is a different matter entirely.)
> I forgot the last time I had to use a credit card (or paypal and their "consumer protection") in the last year, and my life both personal and business is easier and better for it.
I've had to make a few chargebacks in my life. The largest was for almost $2000. Even though the vendor was clearly in the wrong (and I had the written contract to prove it), it would have been way too expensive to actually try and get our money back through the judicial system. Fortunately, my credit card company was more than happy to settle the matter for us.
[0] The consumer doesn't pay for this service directly, but they do indirectly (which isn't fundamentally different from many other products and services, in which the actual cashflow is invisible to the end consumer - this can be problematic in its own right, but that's a separate matter of discussion).
[1] I have plenty of chargeback horror stories as a merchant, but that's the topic of another post. And that doesn't mean I don't see the value in chargebacks in general.
- yc1010 12y agoMass use of credit cards must be an American thing, here in Europe we actually do have descent consumer friendly payment methods (beside cash) in most countries and also fairly efficient Small Claims Courts. Visa/Mastercard must absolute hate the EU and its consumer friendly policies that actually focus on making lives easier and cheaper for people here.
- TTPrograms 12y agoEven going to a "fairly efficient" small claims court is infinitely less convenient than not going at all. I think the consumer wins on this one.
- yc1010 12y agoThe consumer doesn't win, the consumer pays 1-3% more for everything than they should for good/services and the merchants ALWAYS endsup being shafted which leads them to raise prices more to account for fraud and chargebacks. The only who actually wins is the credit card cartel.
- tallanvor 12y agoYou've already decided that the increased costs associated with credit/debit cards aren't worth the increased protections and convenience you get as a consumer. Personally, I find it much easier to be able to carry a credit or debit card rather than having to worry about carrying cash for everything. And knowing that I can get my money back pretty quickly if there's a breach or if a merchant doesn't provide the services they were supposed to is worth paying a bit more.
- yc1010 12y agoYou know whats even better than having a wallet full of cash and credit cards (which can be stolen, cloned etc and having to spend hours on the phone trying to convince your bank that no you really didnt go on a trip to eastern europe paying for hookers with your card) Having a phone with a Bitcoin app where I tap on the payment terminal and pay by confirming the amount and entering my pin. Or scanning a Bitcoin QR code and paying online instead of typing long string of numbers, expiry codes, cvv etc etc and then going thru the anal probing that Verified by Visa or mastercard secure code is.