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Good luck getting people here to believe that. This is a site full of people who think that programmers are engineers.

sanoli 11y ago
Ok, I'll bite. Tell me the differences, besides "engineers build things while programmers write software". Honest question on my part.
- ams6110 11y ago
  "Engineer" implies someone who has completed study and passed objective evaluations of competency, as well as licensure to practice their profession.
  - bkeroack 11y ago
    This could easily be the case for software engineers too, if we didn't abdicate the power to judge competency to employers and vendor certifications.
  - dasil003 11y ago
    Of course all established engineering fields are incredibly narrow compared to the scope of what software might conceivably do. There are simply no definitions of software fields that have the rigor for such objective evaluations and licensure. And there probably never will be given that the substrate of physical engineering is physical matter with unchanging properties whereas with software it's a ponderous stack of man-made abstractions. It doesn't mean that programming is in any less need of rigor or that it is any easier than any other form of engineering at scale.
  - timthorn 11y ago
    Only in some countries. In others, anyone can profess to be an engineer.
  - ougawouga 11y ago
    You realize that in most US states, software engineers can now sit for a PE license in software engineering, right? This has been possible in a few states since 2012, when the NCEES started offering the PE license exam in software engineering. This is the same license that electrical, mechanical, structural engineers get, with the same initial Fundamentals of Engineering exam followed by the subject matter (P&P) exam (usually after verification of a certain amount of experience).
    - cbd1984 11y ago
      And, if they're Americans, they'll be taking the exam, as opposed to sitting for it, or writing it. (After all, professors or other entities write exams. The whole point is that the students didn't write it, or else they'd know all the answers, now wouldn't they?)
darkmighty 11y ago
haha The basis of engineering for the last two decades has been mountains of Matlab code, among other things.

Ok, I'll bite. Tell me the differences, besides "engineers build things while programmers write software". Honest question on my part.

ams6110 11y ago
"Engineer" implies someone who has completed study and passed objective evaluations of competency, as well as licensure to practice their profession.
- bkeroack 11y ago
  This could easily be the case for software engineers too, if we didn't abdicate the power to judge competency to employers and vendor certifications.
- dasil003 11y ago
  Of course all established engineering fields are incredibly narrow compared to the scope of what software might conceivably do. There are simply no definitions of software fields that have the rigor for such objective evaluations and licensure. And there probably never will be given that the substrate of physical engineering is physical matter with unchanging properties whereas with software it's a ponderous stack of man-made abstractions. It doesn't mean that programming is in any less need of rigor or that it is any easier than any other form of engineering at scale.
- timthorn 11y ago
  Only in some countries. In others, anyone can profess to be an engineer.
- ougawouga 11y ago
  You realize that in most US states, software engineers can now sit for a PE license in software engineering, right? This has been possible in a few states since 2012, when the NCEES started offering the PE license exam in software engineering. This is the same license that electrical, mechanical, structural engineers get, with the same initial Fundamentals of Engineering exam followed by the subject matter (P&P) exam (usually after verification of a certain amount of experience).
  - cbd1984 11y ago
    And, if they're Americans, they'll be taking the exam, as opposed to sitting for it, or writing it. (After all, professors or other entities write exams. The whole point is that the students didn't write it, or else they'd know all the answers, now wouldn't they?)

darkmighty 11y ago

haha The basis of engineering for the last two decades has been mountains of Matlab code, among other things.