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I'm curious to see how 3D Robotics handles a similar situation. Their drone platform has been open source hardware plus open source software. There are Chines

I'm curious to see how 3D Robotics handles a similar situation. Their drone platform has been open source hardware plus open source software. There are Chinese companies cloning the hardware and selling it for much cheaper than 3D Robotics sells it for. 3D Robotics just raised $50M in a series C. It will be interesting to see how their commitment to openness holds up.

erkkie 12y ago
I'm curious about that as well, some people have bet it's gonna be a mix of open hardware and proprietary (even if just by code) "governors", something the newest launch, the solo (http://3drobotics.com/solo/ http://3drobotics.com/solo/), would be well-equipped to do (I haven't done the research to confirm/deny that yet).
steve19 12y ago
3D Robotics only open source the flight controller hardware and software and ground control software. delivering a safe drone platform requires a lot more hardware (the aircraft itself, camera and radio gear) and firmware (camera, gimbal, speed controller radio gear).
- erkkie 12y ago
  Technically the ground control software is a separate open source project, also the px4 project is looking to release a open hardware esc (electronic speed controller) soon as well (https://pixhawk.org/modules/pixhawk_esc https://pixhawk.org/modules/pixhawk_esc). Agreed though, the magic is in the total sum.
- jjwiseman 12y ago
  My guess, though, is that as the industry matures, low-level components like ESC & radio firmwares are not really going to be where most value gets added. Software is definitely going to eat the drone world, and it's going to be at the higher levels: First it will be flight software with amazing new features (VSLAM, sense and avoid, swarm control) and then once that's more mature, it will be the operations-level super-ground-control-system stuff.
xenadu02 12y ago
What does that say about the idea of doing open hardware in general? You do all the work, some other manufacturer in China greatly undercuts you. How is that a good idea?
- xorcist 12y ago
  How's that any different from pretty much any easily-copied business? How do Nike or Levi's survive, when pretty much any basement shop in China can undercut them on shoes and jeans? The answer is your brand must must mean something. Be the domain expert. Be the one people turn to with questions. When the clones arrive, you are already ahead. That's easier said than done, and execution is everything and so on and so on. But there's not a vast difference between the open hardware space and other manufacturing businesses.
  - crimsonalucard 12y ago
    Nike and Levi's are bad examples. They use brands as illusions of superiority. Money in this case is not spent on R&D but spent on marketing. Also how can you be the domain expert if you open source everything you know? The millions you spend on R&D are given away and allow others to arrive at the same knowledge for $0. How does that work out for a company from a competitive standpoint? You are basically shooting yourself in the foot in terms of staying ahead and being a domain expert.
- fit2rule 12y ago
  This is a natural consequence of having contributed to a society where China does all the work, anyway. Either beat China at the manufacturing game, or continually be side-swiped by Chinese manufacturers. Alas, no amount of open source anything is going to assist with that challenge ..
  - fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
    Don't try to beat China at manufacturing. That's a fool's errand for nearly everyone. Let them make most of the things. Concentrate on quality and whatever your core business is.
jkestner 12y ago
Agreed that it will be an interesting study. 3DR needs to cross the chasm into mass acceptance before their cost-conscious hobbyist base migrates. (Consider this in the light of Anderson's comparisons to the Apple II.) As others pointed out, MakerBot's tech couldn't make the leap, and 3D printing doesn't have a mass market on the horizon. If 3DR drones are more expensive, it's not only because they're not made in China. Manufacturing in Mexico is cheap enough, and buys you lead time, which suits their extremely fast iteration. A good idea in this gold rush. People will pay more for the brand, if it stands for great support and integration. China is traditionally poor at those. 3DR started with a community, and regular people diving into drones will appreciate this comfort level. TL;DR: To fight cheaper, make it better.

erkkie 12y ago

I'm curious about that as well, some people have bet it's gonna be a mix of open hardware and proprietary (even if just by code) "governors", something the newest launch, the solo (http://3drobotics.com/solo/ http://3drobotics.com/solo/), would be well-equipped to do (I haven't done the research to confirm/deny that yet).

steve19 12y ago

3D Robotics only open source the flight controller hardware and software and ground control software. delivering a safe drone platform requires a lot more hardware (the aircraft itself, camera and radio gear) and firmware (camera, gimbal, speed controller radio gear).

erkkie 12y ago
Technically the ground control software is a separate open source project, also the px4 project is looking to release a open hardware esc (electronic speed controller) soon as well (https://pixhawk.org/modules/pixhawk_esc https://pixhawk.org/modules/pixhawk_esc). Agreed though, the magic is in the total sum.
jjwiseman 12y ago
My guess, though, is that as the industry matures, low-level components like ESC & radio firmwares are not really going to be where most value gets added. Software is definitely going to eat the drone world, and it's going to be at the higher levels: First it will be flight software with amazing new features (VSLAM, sense and avoid, swarm control) and then once that's more mature, it will be the operations-level super-ground-control-system stuff.

xenadu02 12y ago

What does that say about the idea of doing open hardware in general? You do all the work, some other manufacturer in China greatly undercuts you. How is that a good idea?

xorcist 12y ago
How's that any different from pretty much any easily-copied business? How do Nike or Levi's survive, when pretty much any basement shop in China can undercut them on shoes and jeans? The answer is your brand must must mean something. Be the domain expert. Be the one people turn to with questions. When the clones arrive, you are already ahead. That's easier said than done, and execution is everything and so on and so on. But there's not a vast difference between the open hardware space and other manufacturing businesses.
- crimsonalucard 12y ago
  Nike and Levi's are bad examples. They use brands as illusions of superiority. Money in this case is not spent on R&D but spent on marketing. Also how can you be the domain expert if you open source everything you know? The millions you spend on R&D are given away and allow others to arrive at the same knowledge for $0. How does that work out for a company from a competitive standpoint? You are basically shooting yourself in the foot in terms of staying ahead and being a domain expert.
fit2rule 12y ago
This is a natural consequence of having contributed to a society where China does all the work, anyway. Either beat China at the manufacturing game, or continually be side-swiped by Chinese manufacturers. Alas, no amount of open source anything is going to assist with that challenge ..
- fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
  Don't try to beat China at manufacturing. That's a fool's errand for nearly everyone. Let them make most of the things. Concentrate on quality and whatever your core business is.

jkestner 12y ago

Agreed that it will be an interesting study. 3DR needs to cross the chasm into mass acceptance before their cost-conscious hobbyist base migrates. (Consider this in the light of Anderson's comparisons to the Apple II.) As others pointed out, MakerBot's tech couldn't make the leap, and 3D printing doesn't have a mass market on the horizon. If 3DR drones are more expensive, it's not only because they're not made in China. Manufacturing in Mexico is cheap enough, and buys you lead time, which suits their extremely fast iteration. A good idea in this gold rush. People will pay more for the brand, if it stands for great support and integration. China is traditionally poor at those. 3DR started with a community, and regular people diving into drones will appreciate this comfort level. TL;DR: To fight cheaper, make it better.