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This is similar to how human civilization formed. Areas of plentiful food have no need for farming or saving up food as wealth thus, it is only in places where

This is similar to how human civilization formed. Areas of plentiful food have no need for farming or saving up food as wealth thus, it is only in places where food/resources are less plentiful did technological civilization develop.

tomp 12y ago
Also, I've heard the theory (I don't know if it's true) that while Chinese invented porcelain and used it for containers (cups, plates, etc), Europeans never did, and ended up inventing glass instead (and windows, microscopes, telescopes, ...).
- blawson 12y ago
  They talk about this on the British panel show Qi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0OhXxx7cQg&ab_channel=solipsism1000 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0OhXxx7cQg&ab_channel=solip...
- thret 12y ago
  Huh, I just read this theory yesterday in Nation by Terry Pratchett. I'm going back and reading the few books of his I missed.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  The Road Not Taken... http://pastebin.com/aJQfubrK http://pastebin.com/aJQfubrK
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Telescopes were brought into Europe by Arabs living in what was then Iberia, Sicily and a few other places. As well as many farming new technologies like irrigation for example.
  - testrun 12y ago
    Not quite - http://www.space.com/21950-who-invented-the-telescope.html http://www.space.com/21950-who-invented-the-telescope.html.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      Ok, it seems I got that wrong. However I was right remembering that Arabs had something to do with optics, as the base findings trace back to Ibn al-Haytham (965). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhaze http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhaze Also just as general information for anyone curious about it, in the process I've found out a list of Arab inventions. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-inventors-changed-the-world-469452.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-invent...
dools 12y ago
That's inaccurate. You should check out "guns, germs and steel".
- crimsonalucard 12y ago
  That book illustrates one theory. What I stated is the theory taught to me as a student by the anthropology department at UCLA. Edit: I take that back. I just read the synopsis on wikipedia. The books' theory is exactly inline with my statement. "The first step towards civilization is the move from nomadic hunter-gatherer to rooted agrarian society. Several conditions are necessary for this transition to occur: 1) access to high protein vegetation that endures storage; 2) a climate dry enough to allow storage; 3) access to animals docile enough for domestication and versatile enough to survive captivity. Control of crops and livestock leads to food surpluses. Surplus frees people up to specialize in activities other than sustenance and supports population growth. The combination of specialization and population growth leads to the accumulation of social and technologic innovations which build on each other. Large societies develop ruling classes and supporting bureaucracies, which in turn lead to the organization of nation-states and empires."
kriro 12y ago
There's an interesting set of forces when it comes to "early stage" innovation (imo). On the one hand what you say is true...sheer necessity forces innovation. On the other hand if there's plenty of food one can save food and use the time not spent hunting/gathering to invent/build new technology. That's pretty much the economics point of view. Save+invest->innovation/technology. Catch a couple of fish, save them if possible. Use time not spend on catching fish to build a net...have more fish. Rinse, repeat.
- arandomafrican 12y ago
  That's probably why early civilization develloped in valleys of river that flooded. In the Nile and Euphrate/Tigre valleys, there was plenty of food but efforts were required for storage. And one that was done, there was plenty of idle time for parts of the year. Hence pyramids and stuff. (and writing for book keeping of stored food)
- crimsonalucard 12y ago
  From a practical standpoint, food tends to rot quickly in nutrient rich environments such as the tropical rain forest. Why save the fish if it's going to rot?

tomp 12y ago

Also, I've heard the theory (I don't know if it's true) that while Chinese invented porcelain and used it for containers (cups, plates, etc), Europeans never did, and ended up inventing glass instead (and windows, microscopes, telescopes, ...).

blawson 12y ago
They talk about this on the British panel show Qi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0OhXxx7cQg&ab_channel=solipsism1000 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0OhXxx7cQg&ab_channel=solip...
thret 12y ago
Huh, I just read this theory yesterday in Nation by Terry Pratchett. I'm going back and reading the few books of his I missed.
TeMPOraL 12y ago
The Road Not Taken... http://pastebin.com/aJQfubrK http://pastebin.com/aJQfubrK
pjmlp 12y ago
Telescopes were brought into Europe by Arabs living in what was then Iberia, Sicily and a few other places. As well as many farming new technologies like irrigation for example.
- testrun 12y ago
  Not quite - http://www.space.com/21950-who-invented-the-telescope.html http://www.space.com/21950-who-invented-the-telescope.html.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Ok, it seems I got that wrong. However I was right remembering that Arabs had something to do with optics, as the base findings trace back to Ibn al-Haytham (965). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhaze http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhaze Also just as general information for anyone curious about it, in the process I've found out a list of Arab inventions. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-inventors-changed-the-world-469452.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-invent...

dools 12y ago

That's inaccurate. You should check out "guns, germs and steel".

crimsonalucard 12y ago
That book illustrates one theory. What I stated is the theory taught to me as a student by the anthropology department at UCLA. Edit: I take that back. I just read the synopsis on wikipedia. The books' theory is exactly inline with my statement. "The first step towards civilization is the move from nomadic hunter-gatherer to rooted agrarian society. Several conditions are necessary for this transition to occur: 1) access to high protein vegetation that endures storage; 2) a climate dry enough to allow storage; 3) access to animals docile enough for domestication and versatile enough to survive captivity. Control of crops and livestock leads to food surpluses. Surplus frees people up to specialize in activities other than sustenance and supports population growth. The combination of specialization and population growth leads to the accumulation of social and technologic innovations which build on each other. Large societies develop ruling classes and supporting bureaucracies, which in turn lead to the organization of nation-states and empires."

kriro 12y ago

There's an interesting set of forces when it comes to "early stage" innovation (imo). On the one hand what you say is true...sheer necessity forces innovation. On the other hand if there's plenty of food one can save food and use the time not spent hunting/gathering to invent/build new technology. That's pretty much the economics point of view. Save+invest->innovation/technology. Catch a couple of fish, save them if possible. Use time not spend on catching fish to build a net...have more fish. Rinse, repeat.

arandomafrican 12y ago
That's probably why early civilization develloped in valleys of river that flooded. In the Nile and Euphrate/Tigre valleys, there was plenty of food but efforts were required for storage. And one that was done, there was plenty of idle time for parts of the year. Hence pyramids and stuff. (and writing for book keeping of stored food)
crimsonalucard 12y ago
From a practical standpoint, food tends to rot quickly in nutrient rich environments such as the tropical rain forest. Why save the fish if it's going to rot?