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What this software is trying to propose is to get rid of the curated game experience and replace it with an algorithm. That works for some games, but I don't s

by Zikes 12y ago

What this software is trying to propose is to get rid of the curated game experience and replace it with an algorithm. That works for some games, but I don't see how it could possibly be used to drive a consistent plot.

stcredzero 12y ago
You don't necessarily need a consistent plot, or at least very much of one. There does have to be some careful and subtle design around an overarching goal, however. In Eve Online several years ago, many of the more serious players didn't give a ___ about any of the curated stuff, other than as a source of munitions and resources for the alliance power struggle. Forces fight for dominance: that's not very much "plot" but many people definitely cared. (I would agree that you need something to structure the experience, however, otherwise you wind up with Second Life, then people's brains go right up the Maslow Need Hierarchy and wind up at sex.) Also, in my work at the MADE museum in Oakland, I find that people might talk about notable stories and art direction in award winning past games, but do you know what they actually do? They play Smash, Mario Kart, or Super Mario. Judging by actions, it's the gameplay/interaction that most strongly draws people back to a re-experience. In a way, assuming the need for plot in games would be like assuming the need for music/sound in cinema. It clearly can enhance the core experience, and you'd almost never have a modern commercial release without it. However, it's synergistic to and not absolutely essential to the core experience.
- Zikes 12y ago
  I think that's a good point, however some counterexamples I would give are Dragon Age, Deus Ex, and Mass Effect. They are massively curated and plot-driven games which many gamers will replay a great deal to re-experience the plot rather than the gameplay. In some cases they will replay them to re-experience the plot in spite of the gameplay.
  - stcredzero 12y ago
    > They are massively curated and plot-driven games which many gamers will replay a great deal to re-experience the plot rather than the gameplay. In some cases they will replay them to re-experience the plot in spite of the gameplay. But in those cases, do we have a story supporting a game, or a game as the substrate/presentation medium for a story? I think we are actually talking about two vastly different things mashed under the same overall label of "game." These two things can even exist in the same piece of software we would call a "game." You can have a very plot/story/roleplaying based experience in Eve Online. You can also basically ignore all of the above and just go for a fairly sandboxy/emergent experience. (I will also note that the two player populations in Eve Online were somewhat distinct, and even when people were in both, they tended to do this by "switching modes.") Clearly, there are many kinds of computer games where plot can be mostly, if not completely nonexistent. There is also clearly a subset of story-centric games that use the interactive medium to primarily tell a story. They are clearly not the same thing. (There's a good analogy with movies, in which some are very focused on the music/soundtrack and others are more focused on action and visual spectacle or the story/plot.) (EDIT: To determine how "core" something is, ask yourself: Could the same "thing" exist as a movie, book, or in some other kind of medium without drastically changing? I would say that the overall experience of Mass Effect would drastically change were it to become a TV miniseries. However, you could conceivably create a TV miniseries with nearly the identical plot of Mass Effect.)
chongli 12y ago
get rid of the curated game experience and replace it with an algorithm. This is part of an overall trend in the industry that has been building for the past several years. It started with the game Rogue and for a long time it was relegated to the genre of Roguelikes. Now, procedurally generated content is showing up everywhere, just like RPG mechanics and microtransactions before it.

by Zikes 12y ago

stcredzero 12y ago

You don't necessarily need a consistent plot, or at least very much of one. There does have to be some careful and subtle design around an overarching goal, however. In Eve Online several years ago, many of the more serious players didn't give a ___ about any of the curated stuff, other than as a source of munitions and resources for the alliance power struggle. Forces fight for dominance: that's not very much "plot" but many people definitely cared. (I would agree that you need something to structure the experience, however, otherwise you wind up with Second Life, then people's brains go right up the Maslow Need Hierarchy and wind up at sex.) Also, in my work at the MADE museum in Oakland, I find that people might talk about notable stories and art direction in award winning past games, but do you know what they actually do? They play Smash, Mario Kart, or Super Mario. Judging by actions, it's the gameplay/interaction that most strongly draws people back to a re-experience. In a way, assuming the need for plot in games would be like assuming the need for music/sound in cinema. It clearly can enhance the core experience, and you'd almost never have a modern commercial release without it. However, it's synergistic to and not absolutely essential to the core experience.

Zikes 12y ago
I think that's a good point, however some counterexamples I would give are Dragon Age, Deus Ex, and Mass Effect. They are massively curated and plot-driven games which many gamers will replay a great deal to re-experience the plot rather than the gameplay. In some cases they will replay them to re-experience the plot in spite of the gameplay.
- stcredzero 12y ago
  > They are massively curated and plot-driven games which many gamers will replay a great deal to re-experience the plot rather than the gameplay. In some cases they will replay them to re-experience the plot in spite of the gameplay. But in those cases, do we have a story supporting a game, or a game as the substrate/presentation medium for a story? I think we are actually talking about two vastly different things mashed under the same overall label of "game." These two things can even exist in the same piece of software we would call a "game." You can have a very plot/story/roleplaying based experience in Eve Online. You can also basically ignore all of the above and just go for a fairly sandboxy/emergent experience. (I will also note that the two player populations in Eve Online were somewhat distinct, and even when people were in both, they tended to do this by "switching modes.") Clearly, there are many kinds of computer games where plot can be mostly, if not completely nonexistent. There is also clearly a subset of story-centric games that use the interactive medium to primarily tell a story. They are clearly not the same thing. (There's a good analogy with movies, in which some are very focused on the music/soundtrack and others are more focused on action and visual spectacle or the story/plot.) (EDIT: To determine how "core" something is, ask yourself: Could the same "thing" exist as a movie, book, or in some other kind of medium without drastically changing? I would say that the overall experience of Mass Effect would drastically change were it to become a TV miniseries. However, you could conceivably create a TV miniseries with nearly the identical plot of Mass Effect.)

chongli 12y ago

get rid of the curated game experience and replace it with an algorithm. This is part of an overall trend in the industry that has been building for the past several years. It started with the game Rogue and for a long time it was relegated to the genre of Roguelikes. Now, procedurally generated content is showing up everywhere, just like RPG mechanics and microtransactions before it.