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>Regarding the last test procedure, that would be like testing the helmet on an adult male of average height, where, while standing, suddenly suffered a stroke

>Regarding the last test procedure, that would be like testing the helmet on an adult male of average height, where, while standing, suddenly suffered a stroke and fell over With all due respect, do you ride a bike extensively? Because these exact sort of accidents happen all the time. I've fallen sideways from a stationary position several times over the last 5 years as an avid cyclist when I've had lapses in judgment or focus when declipping from my pedals. Further, I was struck by a car from behind 2 years ago and lost consciousness, propelled forward several meters, broke several ribs, suffered large abrasions on my back. My helmet suffered dents and scratches, but my head and face were 100% fine. If not for the helmet, I would have 100% suffered from cuts and abrasions to my face (given that my back has permanent scars, this could have easily happened to my face), even without taking into consideration impact protection. The fact that bicycle helmets don't protect you from every type of accident situation is a ridiculous reason to not wear one.

u801e 12y ago
> With all due respect, do you ride a bike extensively? In the last 10 years, I've ridden about 10,000 miles give or take. > Because these exact sort of accidents happen all the time. I've fallen sideways from a stationary position several times over the last 5 years as an avid cyclist when I've had lapses in judgment or focus when declipping from my pedals. I've never used pedal clips. I do ride in traffic, but I doubt I average more than 15 miles per hour. > Further, I was struck by a car from behind 2 years ago and lost consciousness, propelled forward several meters, broke several ribs, suffered large abrasions on my back. My helmet suffered dents and scratches, but my head and face were 100% fine. If not for the helmet, I would have 100% suffered from cuts and abrasions to my face That last sentence doesn't really make sense. Bicycle helmets do not cover one's face. Also, getting hit from behind by a vehicle is the least common type of crash from what I've read. > The fact that bicycle helmets don't protect you from every type of accident situation is a ridiculous reason to not wear one. If they were designed in a way that would protect me in most crashes, then I certainly would wear one while riding, but given the standard I referenced, I seriously doubt it. If FMVSS 209 stated that seat belts in cars were only tested in frontal collisions at speeds of 20 mph or less, then I wouldn't bother wearing them because I know that they wouldn't protect me while I'm driving at highway speeds. Fortunately, that's not the case and I always wear my seat belt while riding in or driving a car. In the end, the way one rides is far more effective in mitigating the risk of getting involved in a crash (like following the rules of the road, having appropriate equipment, etc.)
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  Thanks for the detailed clarification. >That last sentence doesn't really make sense. Bicycle helmets do not cover one's face. When you're propelled off your bike, some part of your head is likely to make contact with the ground (particularly if you're unconscious), along with your torso. The line formed by the outermost part of the helmet and whatever part of your torso that hits the ground is often outside of your face/head and thus helps avoid cuts/abrasions when grating against the ground. I personally support others' right to not wear a helmet. In fact, I didn't wear one either when I lived and worked in Japan and bike commuted to the train station. I also believe the evidence and studies that show the relative ineffectiveness of current helmet designs. However, I also believe that the decision of others in wearing the helmets available for a marginal improvement in safety should be respected as well [1]. [1] The counterargument to this is if by not purchasing the current helmets and protesting for better designs, we can help spur companies to develop more robust products.
- darkmighty 12y ago
  The fact is, wearing a helmet clearly reduces head injuries. If you are conscious of all other aspects of security, protecting your most important and magical organ (the brain) should be sound advice. In fact, I personally might accept an overall sightly increased injury risk for better head protection -- I can go without practicing this or that sport, but I really wouldn't wish to become unable to enjoy intellectual activities as much due to a brain injury.
panglott 12y ago
This is the single best argument I've ever seen for not wearing clip pedals. I always commute with flat pedals because it's easier and more convenient, but the safety issue has got to be huge.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  I use all sorts of pedals, ranging from Look, Shimano SPD, plastic based straps and metal based straps to flats. In city traffic I'd probably stick to flats or straps. In suburbian commutes with less stop and go, I found SPDs to be a good compromise since they are pretty easy to get out of (my falls have been when I was using look pedals on a pretty stiff setting). In the end you go with whatever you're comfortable with. There's really no objective better or worse, just tradeoffs that each of us make (safer but slower, etc) (There's no compromising when it comes to front and rear lights though, imo)
  - panglott 12y ago
    Yes, the frustrating thing about the bike helmet debate is that it totally misrepresents the kind of safety gear that's important. I never wear a helmet, but I ALWAYS have reflectors, front and rear lights, a hat to keep the sun out of my eyes, rear fenders, and mirrors to check for traffic behind me. Visibility and awareness are infinitely more important than helmets.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      I suggest that 'survivor bias' may apply. Anyway, Be safe out there!
makeitsuckless 12y ago
"declipping" In other words, you're one of those who races in traffic. I rest my case. Personally, I've been on a bicycle almost every day since I was a kid. In busy traffic. Without a helmet. You wear a helmet because you ride dangerously and/or in dangerous situations. The helmet isn't about cycling. It's about you, and your behaviour.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  Thank you for assuming things that are, in this case, entirely untrue. Presumably you have seen an abundance of poor actors which has primed your perspective, but I would ask that you not be so quick to judge someone who you don't even know. I have never raced in traffic and abhor reckless riding behavior, running redlights/stoplights, and the like. I only ride straps or flats in the city. I use clip-ins in the hills and long straightaway rural routes with ample shoulder area (ex: Canada road by Crystal Springs).
  - makeitsuckless 12y ago
    You just keep going there. You've clearly demonstrated and confirmed that your cycle for sports in an environment that is aggressively pro-car and anti-bicycle. I'm not assuming shit, you're telling me. Apparently you're the one assuming that everyone riding a bicycle does it the way you do, and therefor should be wearing a helmet. We don't. But according to you millions of us are "ridiculous" (your words) for not wearing one. Yeah, but I'm the one who's quick to judge. Sure.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      You are being a bit aggressive. Did you realise? You make a reasonable point -- most people in some countries do not wear helmets; many more people cylce; rates of head injury are not significantly greater than places where helmets are worn and the exercise benefits to the rest of the population means that more lives are saved. But your aggressive tone is earning you downvotes.
WildUtah 12y ago
"I've fallen sideways from a stationary position several times over the last 5 years as an avid cyclist when I've had lapses in judgment or focus when declipping from my pedals." Maybe you should try being a lot more careful. I've been riding 10,000km per annum for a decade, two of those years in Mexico City with the worst traffic in the hemisphere. I routinely do 40km up and down rides in the mountains at high speeds and medium length rides in city traffic. I've had one crash and that happened on wet cobblestones with a new bike whose brakes I didn't know well; I endoed over the handlebars and scraped my hands up a little and then rode home 10 more km.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  I have only fallen sideways when stationary so no, this is not the case (the worst one was actually in my own driveway).

u801e 12y ago

> With all due respect, do you ride a bike extensively? In the last 10 years, I've ridden about 10,000 miles give or take. > Because these exact sort of accidents happen all the time. I've fallen sideways from a stationary position several times over the last 5 years as an avid cyclist when I've had lapses in judgment or focus when declipping from my pedals. I've never used pedal clips. I do ride in traffic, but I doubt I average more than 15 miles per hour. > Further, I was struck by a car from behind 2 years ago and lost consciousness, propelled forward several meters, broke several ribs, suffered large abrasions on my back. My helmet suffered dents and scratches, but my head and face were 100% fine. If not for the helmet, I would have 100% suffered from cuts and abrasions to my face That last sentence doesn't really make sense. Bicycle helmets do not cover one's face. Also, getting hit from behind by a vehicle is the least common type of crash from what I've read. > The fact that bicycle helmets don't protect you from every type of accident situation is a ridiculous reason to not wear one. If they were designed in a way that would protect me in most crashes, then I certainly would wear one while riding, but given the standard I referenced, I seriously doubt it. If FMVSS 209 stated that seat belts in cars were only tested in frontal collisions at speeds of 20 mph or less, then I wouldn't bother wearing them because I know that they wouldn't protect me while I'm driving at highway speeds. Fortunately, that's not the case and I always wear my seat belt while riding in or driving a car. In the end, the way one rides is far more effective in mitigating the risk of getting involved in a crash (like following the rules of the road, having appropriate equipment, etc.)

hkmurakami 12y ago
Thanks for the detailed clarification. >That last sentence doesn't really make sense. Bicycle helmets do not cover one's face. When you're propelled off your bike, some part of your head is likely to make contact with the ground (particularly if you're unconscious), along with your torso. The line formed by the outermost part of the helmet and whatever part of your torso that hits the ground is often outside of your face/head and thus helps avoid cuts/abrasions when grating against the ground. I personally support others' right to not wear a helmet. In fact, I didn't wear one either when I lived and worked in Japan and bike commuted to the train station. I also believe the evidence and studies that show the relative ineffectiveness of current helmet designs. However, I also believe that the decision of others in wearing the helmets available for a marginal improvement in safety should be respected as well [1]. [1] The counterargument to this is if by not purchasing the current helmets and protesting for better designs, we can help spur companies to develop more robust products.
darkmighty 12y ago
The fact is, wearing a helmet clearly reduces head injuries. If you are conscious of all other aspects of security, protecting your most important and magical organ (the brain) should be sound advice. In fact, I personally might accept an overall sightly increased injury risk for better head protection -- I can go without practicing this or that sport, but I really wouldn't wish to become unable to enjoy intellectual activities as much due to a brain injury.

panglott 12y ago

This is the single best argument I've ever seen for not wearing clip pedals. I always commute with flat pedals because it's easier and more convenient, but the safety issue has got to be huge.

hkmurakami 12y ago
I use all sorts of pedals, ranging from Look, Shimano SPD, plastic based straps and metal based straps to flats. In city traffic I'd probably stick to flats or straps. In suburbian commutes with less stop and go, I found SPDs to be a good compromise since they are pretty easy to get out of (my falls have been when I was using look pedals on a pretty stiff setting). In the end you go with whatever you're comfortable with. There's really no objective better or worse, just tradeoffs that each of us make (safer but slower, etc) (There's no compromising when it comes to front and rear lights though, imo)
- panglott 12y ago
  Yes, the frustrating thing about the bike helmet debate is that it totally misrepresents the kind of safety gear that's important. I never wear a helmet, but I ALWAYS have reflectors, front and rear lights, a hat to keep the sun out of my eyes, rear fenders, and mirrors to check for traffic behind me. Visibility and awareness are infinitely more important than helmets.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    I suggest that 'survivor bias' may apply. Anyway, Be safe out there!

makeitsuckless 12y ago

"declipping" In other words, you're one of those who races in traffic. I rest my case. Personally, I've been on a bicycle almost every day since I was a kid. In busy traffic. Without a helmet. You wear a helmet because you ride dangerously and/or in dangerous situations. The helmet isn't about cycling. It's about you, and your behaviour.

hkmurakami 12y ago
Thank you for assuming things that are, in this case, entirely untrue. Presumably you have seen an abundance of poor actors which has primed your perspective, but I would ask that you not be so quick to judge someone who you don't even know. I have never raced in traffic and abhor reckless riding behavior, running redlights/stoplights, and the like. I only ride straps or flats in the city. I use clip-ins in the hills and long straightaway rural routes with ample shoulder area (ex: Canada road by Crystal Springs).
- makeitsuckless 12y ago
  You just keep going there. You've clearly demonstrated and confirmed that your cycle for sports in an environment that is aggressively pro-car and anti-bicycle. I'm not assuming shit, you're telling me. Apparently you're the one assuming that everyone riding a bicycle does it the way you do, and therefor should be wearing a helmet. We don't. But according to you millions of us are "ridiculous" (your words) for not wearing one. Yeah, but I'm the one who's quick to judge. Sure.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    You are being a bit aggressive. Did you realise? You make a reasonable point -- most people in some countries do not wear helmets; many more people cylce; rates of head injury are not significantly greater than places where helmets are worn and the exercise benefits to the rest of the population means that more lives are saved. But your aggressive tone is earning you downvotes.

WildUtah 12y ago

"I've fallen sideways from a stationary position several times over the last 5 years as an avid cyclist when I've had lapses in judgment or focus when declipping from my pedals." Maybe you should try being a lot more careful. I've been riding 10,000km per annum for a decade, two of those years in Mexico City with the worst traffic in the hemisphere. I routinely do 40km up and down rides in the mountains at high speeds and medium length rides in city traffic. I've had one crash and that happened on wet cobblestones with a new bike whose brakes I didn't know well; I endoed over the handlebars and scraped my hands up a little and then rode home 10 more km.

hkmurakami 12y ago
I have only fallen sideways when stationary so no, this is not the case (the worst one was actually in my own driveway).