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For anyone who has assembled IKEA furniture, it's worth noting that their cross-type screw drives are almost exclusively pozidriv, not Phillips. They are very s

For anyone who has assembled IKEA furniture, it's worth noting that their cross-type screw drives are almost exclusively pozidriv, not Phillips. They are very similar, but you get a noticeably better fit if you use the right driver. Even with Phillips head I see many computer people using a PH1 driver in a PH2 screw and unwittingly damaging one or the other. These sizes are not supposed to be interchangeable!

mikeash 12y ago
I really hate the Philips head. I guess it's good when you're building cars with cheap tools and uneducated workers, but for everything it gets used for today, a screw head that deliberately cams out and that willingly accepts incorrect driver sizes but gets damaged from it is just useless. I'm seriously considering adding Henry F. Philips to my list of people to go back in time to assassinate if I ever get ahold of a time machine.
- abakker 12y ago
  Phillips heads are not really for high-torque applications. They stem from an era where many drivers didn't have a rapid stop, and the automated centering was very helpful. Unfortunately, this persisted in the construction industry because of drywall. Phillips heads in drywall will readily "cam out" when you hit a high enough torque, which can help prevent over tightening or stripping. (of course, if you keep trying to tighten the screws they will almost always strip). The bits were universal, but they were never designed to be a high torque fastener, and they are completely inappropriate for most woodscrews over 2 inches long (deck screws, etc.) Fortunately, even home depot and lowes are now beginning to carry Torx drive screws, which work much better. If you are buying deck screws for any project, always try to get T25 rather than T20 size screws. They are sufficiently resilient that each screw could be reused many times, while phillips/square drive screws will start to loosen/strip after 1 use.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- shawkinaw 12y ago
  Totally agree, Philips is horrible to use with a screw gun. I'm just happy that star drive is so common now, I always use those if I can.
- bradleyland 12y ago
  TIL that all the frustration I've felt with philips screws over the years is the result of a design decision.
Gracana 12y ago
> using a PH1 driver in a PH2 screw I see that a lot. I think people are confused by the size of the bit; the one that fits is kind of large compared to the size of the screw. As a side note... There's a lot of stuff out there that looks like Phillips but is actually JIS B 1012 ("crosshead.") Compared to Phillips heads, JIS heads are a little deeper, the cross is a little more square, and sometimes there's a dot in one corner of the cross. They're actually quite reliable and resistant to cam-out, provided you use the right tools.

mikeash 12y ago

I really hate the Philips head. I guess it's good when you're building cars with cheap tools and uneducated workers, but for everything it gets used for today, a screw head that deliberately cams out and that willingly accepts incorrect driver sizes but gets damaged from it is just useless. I'm seriously considering adding Henry F. Philips to my list of people to go back in time to assassinate if I ever get ahold of a time machine.

abakker 12y ago
Phillips heads are not really for high-torque applications. They stem from an era where many drivers didn't have a rapid stop, and the automated centering was very helpful. Unfortunately, this persisted in the construction industry because of drywall. Phillips heads in drywall will readily "cam out" when you hit a high enough torque, which can help prevent over tightening or stripping. (of course, if you keep trying to tighten the screws they will almost always strip). The bits were universal, but they were never designed to be a high torque fastener, and they are completely inappropriate for most woodscrews over 2 inches long (deck screws, etc.) Fortunately, even home depot and lowes are now beginning to carry Torx drive screws, which work much better. If you are buying deck screws for any project, always try to get T25 rather than T20 size screws. They are sufficiently resilient that each screw could be reused many times, while phillips/square drive screws will start to loosen/strip after 1 use.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
shawkinaw 12y ago
Totally agree, Philips is horrible to use with a screw gun. I'm just happy that star drive is so common now, I always use those if I can.
bradleyland 12y ago
TIL that all the frustration I've felt with philips screws over the years is the result of a design decision.

Gracana 12y ago

> using a PH1 driver in a PH2 screw I see that a lot. I think people are confused by the size of the bit; the one that fits is kind of large compared to the size of the screw. As a side note... There's a lot of stuff out there that looks like Phillips but is actually JIS B 1012 ("crosshead.") Compared to Phillips heads, JIS heads are a little deeper, the cross is a little more square, and sometimes there's a dot in one corner of the cross. They're actually quite reliable and resistant to cam-out, provided you use the right tools.