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It's not just Italy which has horrible rules around private limited-liability companies (LLC). In The Netherlands you need to invest 18k EUR to create a BV, wh

It's not just Italy which has horrible rules around private limited-liability companies (LLC). In The Netherlands you need to invest 18k EUR to create a BV, which is the Dutch form of a pLLC. Combined with strong worker protections it's amazing that there are so many startups here. I guess the culture, high level of English-speaking and high education level explains it.

phesse14 12y ago
I agree. I'd dare to say it's a common problem in most EU countries. EU is a more regulated environment in comparison to the US. EU is the old school of business (i.e. banks), so politicians are more focused on protecting them instead of helping to create new ones. This involves a cultural change. The economic downturn is the opportunity to do so
bkor 12y ago
A LLC is a burden on the country if you go bankrupt. So obviously you need to show that you have enough money. Are you sure about the rules? I was taught (though ages ago), that you could basically get a short loan for the amount. Further, it was more like 10k IIRC. I'm surprised you think the rules should be eased. An LLC is pretty often abused for fraud. Putting everything in an LLC, letting it go bankrupt, moving to the next one, etc. Edit: BV for .nl is 260 EUR at https://www.oprichtenbv.nl/ https://www.oprichtenbv.nl/. I just googled for it. No additional costs.
- jarek-foksa 12y ago
  The directors are fully liable if their actions are found to be fraudulent. It's "limited liability", not "no liability whatsoever".
  - bkor 12y ago
    Which in practice is not enforced very often.
- lavamantis 12y ago
  > "An LLC is pretty often abused for fraud" Do you have any stats on "legit" LLCs vs. "fraud" LLCs? I would imagine that the VAST majority of LLCs are started by honest people just looking to create something new. There will always be social hackers in all fields of human endeavor looking to exploit loopholes for personal gain, but my assumption is that they are a small minority. It seems like the benefits of LLCs to a society would outweigh the negatives.
mryan 12y ago
> In The Netherlands you need to invest 18k EUR to create a BV This used to be the case, but the rule was changed in October 2012. I started a BV with 100EUR initial capital. I think this contributed towards the increase in Dutch startups in the last few years, in addition to the points you mentioned.

phesse14 12y ago

I agree. I'd dare to say it's a common problem in most EU countries. EU is a more regulated environment in comparison to the US. EU is the old school of business (i.e. banks), so politicians are more focused on protecting them instead of helping to create new ones. This involves a cultural change. The economic downturn is the opportunity to do so

bkor 12y ago

A LLC is a burden on the country if you go bankrupt. So obviously you need to show that you have enough money. Are you sure about the rules? I was taught (though ages ago), that you could basically get a short loan for the amount. Further, it was more like 10k IIRC. I'm surprised you think the rules should be eased. An LLC is pretty often abused for fraud. Putting everything in an LLC, letting it go bankrupt, moving to the next one, etc. Edit: BV for .nl is 260 EUR at https://www.oprichtenbv.nl/ https://www.oprichtenbv.nl/. I just googled for it. No additional costs.

jarek-foksa 12y ago
The directors are fully liable if their actions are found to be fraudulent. It's "limited liability", not "no liability whatsoever".
- bkor 12y ago
  Which in practice is not enforced very often.
lavamantis 12y ago
> "An LLC is pretty often abused for fraud" Do you have any stats on "legit" LLCs vs. "fraud" LLCs? I would imagine that the VAST majority of LLCs are started by honest people just looking to create something new. There will always be social hackers in all fields of human endeavor looking to exploit loopholes for personal gain, but my assumption is that they are a small minority. It seems like the benefits of LLCs to a society would outweigh the negatives.

mryan 12y ago

> In The Netherlands you need to invest 18k EUR to create a BV This used to be the case, but the rule was changed in October 2012. I started a BV with 100EUR initial capital. I think this contributed towards the increase in Dutch startups in the last few years, in addition to the points you mentioned.